Apex & Multiplayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX7rVHmLFkEApex Legends & Google Cloudhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQEM100LZL0"We run our lobby servers in Europe and Asia, because there are no latency sensitive actions taking place in the lobby so it doesn't really matter where we run them. So if you're just looking at lists of IPs you've connected to, that isn't going to mean much. Your matches and training will be servers that are near you." ( https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/c2zc07/pc_client_patch_live_today_6202019/erq7hcf?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x )"We have always sampled user input once every client frame. We have always sent them to the server in batches. The rate of the client sending those batches was accidentally lowered from 60hz to 20hz, and now it's 60hz or even slightly more now. We aren't sending more usercmds than we used to, but we will send each one multiple times now, which will help users with upstream packet loss. Since we're sending them more often, it means the server will get more of them before each cutoff to run the frame, so it should have a modest reduction in latency." ( https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/c2zc07/pc_client_patch_live_today_6202019/ernrco9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x )Also, I should mention that Jon Shiring, the Respawn engineer that made the comments on Reddit and also appears in both videos, left Respawn studio 2 weeks ago.

I guess that means @GRiPSViGiL will now need a new hobby! :P

I think most people don't actually understand how things work. Console gaming is at 60hz, as average TVs don't support higher refresh rates. 128 tickrate in this case would not make any difference, except for putting more load on the servers.Then, as the former Respawn engineer said, clients sends updates at over 60hz and also multiple times, to reduce packet loss issues. It makes a lot of sense for the server to process ticks at slower frequency, since more data makes the simulation more precise and the predictions become more accurate.To this moment, I haven't seen a proper netcode comparison between Apex and another game. It's obvious a game like Overwatch will have less issues, since there are only 12 heroes, of which only 6 are enemies usually, the map is significantly smaller, with less environmental stuff, much less loot, less interactibles, simpler physics, slower movement, hitscan, less details overall, etc.. I'm pretty sure that a 60 people BR on a map of 2km per 2km would perform worse in Overwatch than in Apex.

I highly doubt anything has changed. Recent videos from Shroud have multiple clips of hitting static / moving targets (big or small) and getting multiple no regs, as well as consistent game crashing, getting downed behind cover, and audio issues. Biggest offender of no-reg is a tie between a clip of Shroud shooting at a purple shield Wraith, hitting multiple times with a Wingman but not downing the target despite hearing and seeing shots hit. That or the static Gibralter who hadn't noticed he had entered bubble, which Shroud then shot with a PK, only to see half the PK pellets hit give blood and VFX yet have multiple pellets not reg, and the other half to pass right through and hit bubble instead.

@apostolateofDOOM Hope dies last. "NetVigil" will be here, stating that "no matter what, netcode is crap and they don't know how to set their VMs properly", in 5,4,3...Also, forgot to mention that June 20th patch dropped after Battle(non)sense's latest review of Apex Legends.

Hey @GRiPSViGiL , did you make this video? If you didn't, you'll love it anyway 😃https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/f8h8uk/the_current_state_of_apex_legends/

Some Interesting Bits Regarding Apex Servers & Netcode

17 Replies

apostolateofDOO
6 years ago
I guess that means @GRiPSViGiL will now need a new hobby! :P
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
@apostolateofDOOM Hope dies last. "NetVigil" will be here, stating that "no matter what, netcode is crap and they don't know how to set their VMs properly", in 5,4,3...

Also, forgot to mention that June 20th patch dropped after Battle(non)sense's latest review of Apex Legends.
Fr3dY2
Rising Ace
6 years ago
Hey @GRiPSViGiL , did you make this video? If you didn't, you'll love it anyway 😃
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/f8h8uk/the_current_state_of_apex_legends/
Koochi-Q
6 years ago
@Fr3dY2 Lolz I loved it and I finally know where the laughing guy meme comes from (never seen amazing spiderman movies or any spiderman movies except the very old one...)
Fr3dY2
Rising Ace
6 years ago
Some interesting discussion in the comments here: https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/f8h8uk/the_current_state_of_apex_legends/fimn62p
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
I think most people don't actually understand how things work. Console gaming is at 60hz, as average TVs don't support higher refresh rates. 128 tickrate in this case would not make any difference, except for putting more load on the servers.
Then, as the former Respawn engineer said, clients sends updates at over 60hz and also multiple times, to reduce packet loss issues. It makes a lot of sense for the server to process ticks at slower frequency, since more data makes the simulation more precise and the predictions become more accurate.
To this moment, I haven't seen a proper netcode comparison between Apex and another game. It's obvious a game like Overwatch will have less issues, since there are only 12 heroes, of which only 6 are enemies usually, the map is significantly smaller, with less environmental stuff, much less loot, less interactibles, simpler physics, slower movement, hitscan, less details overall, etc.. I'm pretty sure that a 60 people BR on a map of 2km per 2km would perform worse in Overwatch than in Apex.
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
Looking at Riot's approach for their upcoming shooter, you get to understand where the main problems lie with online shooters:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/dipo0k/riot_isnt_bluffing_about_fixing_netcode_in_their/
https://www.dexerto.com/project-a/why-riot-project-a-netcode-better-csgo-other-shooters-1153989
Koochi-Q
6 years ago
@DoYaSeeMeWhat about the battle nonsense one? It compared it to blackout, H1Z1, fortnite and more

You can have multiple server side packages sent, but if it doesn’t update on the client side, you get discrepancy.

The way I understand netcode is comparing it to a laser shining in your eye and blinking. Lets say you have a laser pointed at your eye and it flashes 6 times a second. If you keep your eye open the whole time and nothing’s wrong with your perception, you see (get the packages in the analogy) 6 times.
You can of course (in)voluntary close your eyes without a problem... if it happends when no light was shining you don’t miss anything, but you wont know that (any hiccups in system that the emd user isn’t aware of). If you close your eyes, look away or anything happends which causes you to not see that light shine 6 times and only 4 times, you miss certain information.

This is what happends if there’s a discrepancy between server and client from what I gather from impromptu networking info lesson months ago.
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
More interesting stuff: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/opinions/apex-legends-how-video-game-supported-million-concurrent-players-its-second-day/
"Apex Legends’ network model and netcode was developed by a team of just three people" - Wow!
"Google Compute Engine sites are easy to identify by the ‘GCE’ tag – the rest are a combination of facilities from AWS and Microsoft Azure, plus some bare metal servers." - Hmm, maybe this makes the experience different, depending on the server you connect to?
@Koochi-Q There were changes done after Battle(non)sense's reviews. Besides, the guy doesn't consider that some of the games have unique complexity or technical limitations. In some cases, game engines and network models need to be replaced / rewritten, but who would be willing to put their game on hold for a few years?
Koochi-Q
6 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe After which one? They said that they did something different after the first time, yet his vids months afterwards seemed to disprove that.

Also, I don’t think it’s the guys prerogative to talk about technical complexity since all games have that element and you can’t just simply deduce that by way of networking.

Game engines are usually updated while games are being made. It takes a lot of work but no game company is that stupid to not update their engine while also making games. Some just take too long to do it for whatever reason. Look at the CoD engine... it still ‘held up’ after almost a decade of no significant updating. A good one is Unreal Engine. It seems like that thing gets several significant updates a year. An example of Engine going bad is the one Telltale Games used. They hadn’t updated it since one of their first game and wanted to do so... unfortunately they went belly up.

I of course have no solid info regarding the matter, I go based by what I read from several links.