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AymCTL's avatar
AymCTL
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
Solved

Thank you devs for addressing cheating

I just saw the press release that as of the next update a certain device (that I won't mention here to respect forum rules) that allows cheats by altering scripts will now no longer work with Apex Le...
discussion
  • saurerDropsXXL's avatar
    saurerDropsXXL
    2 years ago

    This news is really great. Unfortunately, it has one small flaw.
    The honour belongs to Sony, not Respawn. You can read about it under this link.

    Speaking of the problems at Apex, I'd like to make a reflection on something I heard in a video about the rise and fall of COD.
    The video said that Activision has a patent on matching players who have bought a skin with weaker opponents.

    Now just think about how many problems this could explain for Apex, assuming that EA or Respawn had bought the right to use this mechanic from Activision and installed it in Apex. Unfortunately, this is all speculative, as I have no proof.

    No matter who uses this mechanic, for me it's a disguised pay-to-win.

saurerDropsXXL's avatar
saurerDropsXXL
2 years ago

@RockDokRock 

According to these two sources, which tell a similar story 6 years apart, the patent thing is pretty much true (I have only skimmed the texts, as there is a lot of text):

https://www.pcgamer.com/activision-wins-patent-that-uses-matchmaking-to-make-you-want-to-buy-stuff/ 

https://www.ggrecon.com/articles/activision-patents-suggest-cod-players-have-easier-lobbies-if-they-pay/ 

Otherwise, try the search engine you trust yourself and disprove the patent claim.

Asmodeus566's avatar
Asmodeus566
Hero+
2 years ago

@saurerDropsXXL 

Just because one may have a patent does not mean it is in use. Plus Activison is not EA. 

"That said, plenty of ridiculous, insidious patents have been filed before, only to sit idle. Take McDonald's patent to turn TV ads into videogames, for instance. There's no evidence that the patent is currently in practice or will ever be put into practice. " - from the article you submitted.  

  • saurerDropsXXL's avatar
    saurerDropsXXL
    2 years ago

    @Asmodeus566 

    Quote:"Just because one may have a patent does not mean it is in use. Plus Activison is not EA."

    I did not claim any of this.

    Und jetzt mal auf deutsch (ich weiß, du kannst es).

    Dein Zitat aus dem Artikel ist von 2017. Das heißt nur, dass zu diesem Zeitpunkt diese Patentmechanik (bei Activision) nicht im Einsatz war.

    Seit dem ist einige Zeit vergangen und prinzipell ist es möglich, dass diese Mechanik schon seit 2018 zum Einsatz kam. Weiß nur leider keiner, weil es niemand beweisen kann.

    Wenn es auf irgendwas ein Patent gibt, gibt es für Andere praktisch immer die Möglichkeit, gegen eine Lizenzgebühr, die Nutzungsrechte zu kaufen.

    Ja, EA ist nicht Activision. Vielleicht ist EA viel schlimmer als Activision, weil EA bei sowas weniger Skrupel hat als Activision.

    Ich habe hier nur eine Überlegung angestellt, weil diese Mechanik viel bei Apex erklären würde:

    - Das Gefühl von weniger SBMM und mehr EOMM

    - Die vielen Klagen im Forum, dass Master- und Predetor-Spieler in niedrigeren Rängen wildern

    - Die vielen Klagen im Forum, dass die eigenen Teammates Bots oder blutige Anfänger sind

    - Das Gefühl, dass jeder zweite Spieler ein Cheater ist (das Cheaterproblem ist evtl. nicht so groß, aber dafür werden verkappte Master/Pred-Spieler für Cheater gehalten)

    - Es gab Klagen im Forum, dass mittlerweile die neuen Skins nichts Besonderes sind, sondern als Copy'nPaste recolored wurden

    - Die ständige Klagen, dass das Matchmaking verbessert werden müsse und das Unverständniss, dass nichts in diese Richtung passiert. Muss evtl. auch nichts mehr verbessert werden, aber vielleicht hebelt die Patentmechanik von Activision das supi-dupi Matchmaking einfach gnadenlos aus und führt so zu mehr Klagen im Forum.

    Ich habe sicherlich noch was vergessen.

    Im Großen und Ganzen finde ich aber, dass die Annahme, EA hätte diese Mechanik in Apex eingebaut, nachvollziehbar, da es viele schlechte Wahrnehmungen und Gefühle in Apex erklären könnte.

    Und noch einmal: Es ist nur einen Überlegung/Annahme, da ich weder im Allgemeinen beweisen kann, dass diese Mechanik irgendwo im Einsatz ist, noch im Speziellen bei Apex im Einsatz ist.

    Übrigens: deine Art mit Kritikern umzugehen, sie unglaubwürdig zu machen oder anders ruhig zu stellen ist nicht gut für die Diskussionskultur im Forum. Ich habe schon mitbekommen, wie anderen Hero/Champion-Mitglieder etwas unfreundlicher und mit Vorbehalten geantwortet wurde. Es wurde vermutet, dass die Hero/Champion-Mitglieder pro EA antworten müssen, weil sie vermeintlich auf der Gehaltsliste von EA stehen würden.

    Von mir aus kannst du jetzt denken was du willst. Es wäre nur schön, wenn du dich (noch) mehr darum kümmern könntest, dass die vielen Klagen der unzufriedenen Spieler endlich erhört werden, denn sonnst machen die immer mehr das, was ich schon gemacht habe: sich einen anderen Shooter suchen!

    • matzesingt's avatar
      matzesingt
      2 years ago

      Sadly the patch is not mandatory, so everyone can just avoid the ban. Secondly ps4 is excluded.

      its cool they did atleast something but this is really half baked attempt almost like they just pretend to care

    • Asmodeus566's avatar
      Asmodeus566
      Hero+
      2 years ago

      @saurerDropsXXL 

      Firstly: Thank you for your reply.

      Secondly: You are right about the Kudos belonging to Sony vs Cronus and not necessarily EA however they may have worked together on this. I do no know if EA and Sony worked together on this or not since I do not work for EA or get paid by EA. 

      Thirdly: Posting links to sites with the patent you are talking about and saying that it may or may not be in use by anyone, let alone by EA and or Apex is pure speculation on your part and is basically spreading false information, conspiracy theory's, and insinuating a false accusation? 

      Fourthly: Just because you know I speak German does not mean you should be posting a wall of text in German on the English speaking forum. This is against the forum rules, is not nice to the people here on the English speaking forum as it is restrictive and omits them from being a part of the conversation. A sentence or two might be OK however I'm not to sure about that either.

      Editing your comments in from German to English would be the right thing to do in this case. 

      Fifthly: As far as my replies go regarding critical post regarding EA those replies are my own opinions and are in now way guided or dictated by EA except for the fact that I as we all must here on the Forum follow the rules of the Forum set fort by EA. I do not like conspiracy theory's, or the posting of such information in an unfounded way, that posses as a possible false accusation. I am not arguing that the patent does not exist, but that the use of it is nothing but conjecture and only adds to bad feelings. 

      Lastly: I am going to quote and translate: You Wrote:  "Ich habe schon mitbekommen, wie anderen Hero/Champion-Mitglieder etwas unfreundlicher und mit Vorbehalten geantwortet wurde. Es wurde vermutet, dass die Hero/Champion-Mitglieder pro EA antworten müssen, weil sie vermeintlich auf der Gehaltsliste von EA stehen würden.".

      Translation:  "I have already noticed how other Hero/Champion members were responded to in a somewhat unfriendly or reserved manner. It is assumed/thought that the Hero/Champion members had to respond Pro EA/how EA wants because they are supposedly on EA's payroll.". 

      Where do you get that information? Who assume that?  The way you posted that is again conjecture and spreading of false information. Why not just ask directly?  

      I can assure you that I do not work for EA in any shape way or form. I am not on their payroll. EA is not my boss. EA does not tell me what to do or how to respond to posts. My posts are my own opinions and mine alone. I have and can be critical towards EA. In fact I do believe that EA is a bit behind the power curve in the fight against cheaters and need to step up their game.

      The Hero's and Champions here are all here because we are passionate about the games we play, because we want to be a part of a community we can help foster, and to help gamers be gamers by helping them where and when we can with all sorts of issues and get back to enjoying their games. Because of what we do we have been granted these special positions (with special Privilege's) within the community and are therefore better able to assist with helping gamers and keeping the community a safe and healthy place for discussions.

      Just because we do not agree on something or have a different opinion does not mean we cannot have a constructive discourse on that topic. However if it is an unfounded claim I will probably call that out as such.   

      Wishing you lots of GG's.  

      • saurerDropsXXL's avatar
        saurerDropsXXL
        2 years ago

        By special request from here once again my German text in English:

        And now in German (I know you can do it).

        Your quote from the article is from 2017, which only means that at that time this patent mechanic was not in use (at Activision).

        Some time has passed since then and in principle it is possible that this mechanic has been in use since 2018. Unfortunately, nobody knows because nobody can prove it.

        If there is a patent on something, there is practically always the possibility for others to buy the rights of use for a license fee.

        Yes, EA is not Activision. Perhaps EA is much worse than Activision because EA has fewer scruples about such things than Activision.

        I was just making a point here because this mechanic would explain a lot about Apex:

        - The feeling of less SBMM and more EOMM

        - The many complaints on the forums that Master and Predetor players are poaching lower ranks

        - The many complaints in the forum that your teammates are bots or complete beginners

        - The feeling that every second player is a cheater (the cheater problem may not be that big, but master/pred players in disguise are mistaken for cheaters)

        - There were complaints in the forum that the new skins are now nothing special, but have been recolored as copy'n paste

        - The constant complaints that matchmaking needs to be improved and the lack of understanding that nothing is happening in this direction. Maybe nothing needs to be improved, but maybe Activision's patent mechanic is just mercilessly leveraging the supi-dupi matchmaking and leading to more complaints in the forum.

        I'm sure I've forgotten something else.

        On the whole, though, I think the assumption that EA built this mechanic into Apex is understandable, as it could explain a lot of bad perceptions and feelings in Apex.

        And again, it's just a thought/assumption, as I can't prove that this mechanic is in use anywhere in general, nor is it in use in Apex specifically.

        By the way: your way of dealing with critics, making them untrustworthy or otherwise shutting them up is not good for the discussion culture in the forum. I have already noticed how other Hero/Champion members have been responded to in a somewhat unfriendly manner and with reservations. It was assumed that the Hero/Champion members had to answer pro-EA because they were supposedly on EA's payroll.
        You can think what you want now for all I care. It would just be nice if you could do (even) more to ensure that the many complaints of dissatisfied players are finally heard, because otherwise they'll do more and more of what I've already done: look for another shooter!

        Note: The English text was created with the help of an online translation service.

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