There Should Be Non-Aim Assisted Lobbies
I continue to see an increasing argument that aim assistance and/ or its inclusion is fine, but that derives mostly from individuals that either A: use it personally and/ or B: Haven't used mouse & ...
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Throughout human history people have mistakenly wanted segregation based on labels. This goes for race, gender and all kinds of other things.
I view this argument the same. Why should 1 input be considered the correct one to use? I get that people want to blame their deaths on something but how about the devs keep trying to balance all inputs so they are all competitive, rather than divide the community? All dividing the community will do is make queue times longer and lead to arguments about who is really better at the game because those players will no longer be playing against each other.
- @hayhor Good stuff there. I will say though on pc our queue times are the exact same as they were before cross-play came into play. So I am not sure why the forceful mergers is there I don't suspect its from queue times. I just get a little confused why respawn gave us an opt out button then removed it. Speculation is all i can provide answer for that call and it would be most opted out and did not want to play with consoles unless they chose to. So the option was taken away to cater to those queue times of those who wanted cross-play.
Again all speculated guesses. Only so many speculated reasons though as to why that option would be removed. I agree dont divide the players but give the players a choice. If some want to sit in queue for 30 seconds to minutes that is on them if they want very fast queues they join cross-play. Just allow the player an option.
Hello, @hayhor thanks for commenting.I am not suggesting that any one input is better than the other, just suggesting that mouse & keyboard players get a landscape to express themselves without interference. It takes time to get decent with a mouse & keyboard compared to a controller. The player that is learning might give up the mouse & keyboard if they see how others are using controllers.
Mouse & keyboard, mouse mat and have enough desk space compared to just picking up a controller plus having aim assistance is convincing to the average gamer.
Controller users can choose who they play against by choosing PC or console (someone would have to purchase a console to play controller only, but the option is still there). Mouse & keyboard users currently do not have this ability.
On the subject of letting the developers figure a way to allow both to coexist isn't so simple. The average controller gamer might find it quite stressful to use a controller without the use of aim assistance, so it's unrealistic that Respawn would choose to just totally disable its use. From the mouse & keyboard point of view, just lowering the level of aim assistance might not satisfy the average user/s.
In my mind, I think aim assistance works beyond what it should be, like on-screen effects and/ or objects like grass etc. So if Respawn were to curve these issues, it could help the two coexist. Like, allowing aim assistance to work through all Legends skills shouldn't happen. It doesn't on some, but it does on others. When a user can't physically see, aim assistance shouldn't as well.
- @hayhor Eh, I know this is an old thread but since I didn't necro it, and I read it, I'll comment.
Really? This is your take away on inputs? There is no "input racism" here. Same means same. Fair means fair. It is how we played sports since forever. You want to race a car against a bike? You want to put roller blades against skate boards? Go ahead, but at least give people a choice. No one cares which is better, it's preference. And people will always blame deaths on whatever regardless. Separate inputs won't make a difference, but at least it's fair. I see more division and arguing this way than when it was separate.
@hayhor wrote:Throughout human history people have mistakenly wanted segregation based on labels. This goes for race, gender and all kinds of other things.
I view this argument the same. Why should 1 input be considered the correct one to use? I get that people want to blame their deaths on something but how about the devs keep trying to balance all inputs so they are all competitive, rather than divide the community? All dividing the community will do is make queue times longer and lead to arguments about who is really better at the game because those players will no longer be playing against each other.
You are conflating the suffering and deaths of millions of people with gamers who just want the choice of playing separately from those who have the benefit of aim-assist.
That is absolutely stark, staring nuts. This must be the worst comment I have ever read on this topic. I'm astounded it's been allowed.
MnK players endure so much when playing Apex Legends and still people like you come along and make a sport out of denying their simple request for choice.
Unbelievable.
- @warslag No I didn't do what you said at all. I simply said that labels and exclusion are wrong and have been proven wrong many many times over time. I'd prefer if input and platform were not shown to users of this game. Why are they? What good does it accomplish other than labeling users in a certain way?
- @hayhor It's called transparency, and it's necessary so people won't make false assumptions about what they experience, and what they see when spectating.
@hayhor wrote:Throughout human history people have mistakenly wanted segregation based on labels. This goes for race, gender and all kinds of other things.
I view this argument the same. Why should 1 input be considered the correct one to use? I get that people want to blame their deaths on something but how about the devs keep trying to balance all inputs so they are all competitive, rather than divide the community? All dividing the community will do is make queue times longer and lead to arguments about who is really better at the game because those players will no longer be playing against each other.
Sports have weight classes. Racing have different classes… that was a really poor comparison you gave.
The data shows aim assist is dominant. Have you seen how many pros have switched to a controller?! These guys already look like they have aimbots while using a mouse, and they’re choosing to switch to controllers! I have never seen a serious competitive shooter have people playing at the top levels with controllers and be viable.
Respawn will not tune the aim assist to a reasonable level. It’s about making sales. The player base is mostly controller players now. If you were comfortable using MnK or controller, the game encourages you to use a controller. So instead of encouraging people to improve on MnK to climb to the top levels, it’s aim assist. It’s feedback loop that encourages players to use a controller.
There’s so many benefits to aim assist. A couple big ones are that it ignores visual clutter and is less fatiguing mentally. Using a mouse you HAVE to be very present and conscious to be effective. You have to predict movements, track, and stay on point. Aim assist sticks to players while they strafe.
Personally I’m over aim assist and I’m done playing any shooter the doesn’t respect mouse players. I’ve been playing since season 4 pretty consistently, but I actually uninstalled for the first time. I’m taking an indefinite break until they show a willingness to tune aim assist.
- Yeah. Thanks for commenting. All of this is just marketing in my mind.
Aim assistance is leveraged as a monetization tactic, featured as accessibility all while Electronic Arts and/ or its subsidiary Respawn Entertainment markets Apex Legends as competitive. In my opinion, you can't truly have something accesibile and competitive, either/or not both.Video games are a for-profit business and I think people get fooled into the marketing from the actual companies producing the games. What's easier as a company?
A - ‘‘Fully remove aim assistance and code in input based lobbies’’
B - ‘‘Continue to allow the aim assistance community to grow and do absolutely nothing’’.
I think the latter was the more profitable choice, that's why it's continuing to happen. Implementation costs resources, and Respawn isn't well known to update (as something always breaks). I think aim assistance hasn't been dealt with because of all the issues it brings, not solely community outcry.
Like you stated, aim assistance allows one to be mentally unaware of the given moment, basically naive to the current situation. Meanwhile a user without any aim assistance can't do the same. Most biased people that only use aim assistance don't fully understand this.It won't be too long till new games get released without aim assistance so the game can be truly competitive. I gave up on Electronic Arts products and uninstalled all of them myself. I moved to different game companies that offer the ability to play in fair environments. - @RaginSam Actually yes, I've compiled data in the past about pros and mnk vs controller. It's actually very balanced usage and kill wise. I've posted the data and other peoples data on this very forum.
Some pros have switched. Only one has had any real success. Madness and Sweet(both mnk mind you) both recently talked about how mnk is superior and the mix at the pro level is actually good. But again, like most those are "feelings", not actual data.
@hayhor wrote:
@RaginSamActually yes, I've compiled data in the past about pros and mnk vs controller. It's actually very balanced usage and kill wise. I've posted the data and other peoples data on this very forum.
Some pros have switched. Only one has had any real success. Madness and Sweet(both mnk mind you) both recently talked about how mnk is superior and the mix at the pro level is actually good. But again, like most those are "feelings", not actual data.It’s not about “feelings”, it’s about how do you tune aim assist. Take AA away from controllers, could they effectively compete with MnK, not a chance. So giving them over-tuned assist and making it the better choice for a shooter means it’s not appropriately tuned.
Check over your statistics again. The biggest outlier was one-clipping done by controller players. The movement isn’t fast enough to outmaneuver AA. The meta is usually geared towards CQC and using weapons that have the ability to one clip. You can down someone with a sniper, but it’s typically pretty hard because of the higher TTK and the fact you usually have to push from a distance then. All things that are geared towards AA and CQC being the best way to play the game.
ImperialHal has switched and others he plays with have been switching too, or contemplating because it is in fact easier to be more consistent.
If they can’t figure out how to balance the inputs correctly, which they can’t even get ranked sorted out after 17 seasons!!, then the least they could do is separate the inputs. It’s all about profits though.
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