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killroywuzhere0's avatar
4 years ago

A Combat Vet & Game Designers thoughts on Aerial Vehicles: New Changes

*****For those of you following the post, I have been looking at a lot of threads about both jets being "OP" and more specifically their anti-armor capabilities being too strong. I do agree that regardless of counter measures armor have a tough time against jets. That said I have removed AGM's from the Jets in the loadout section of this post and added something new the "DAAAM Missile". I Thought it was a funny acronym lol. I also created header colors so those of you who do not wish to reach the entire post can skim to the important sections you wish to read.*****

Balancing Air vehicles Battlefield 2042:

As a military combat veteran of OIF, and student of game design through Full Sail University. I have been flying in battlefield for some time now and I have noticed insane balance issues with aerial vehicles in battlefield 2042. Leaving me with not only a bad taste in my mouth with flying, but an insane curiosity at how this could have happened. While some designs were not horrible. I feel that there are not enough options to create meaningful choice in aircraft, have defined roles, or feel like your efforts even impact the match.

Balancing Aircraft:

Balancing aircraft should have been more tailored to a rock, paper, scissors scenario with a review on how these vehicles play into CONOPS (Concept of Operations) first. While still allowing skilled players to overcome their “counters” in certain situations. So basically, paper usually beats rock, but a skilled rock could also be paper. This is a very difficult thing to develop but I believe it was completely missed in this game. Let’s review the current “archetypes” of aircraft in this game:

  • Fighter Jets: Felon / Panther
    • Supposed to be the strongest anti air vehicle in the game as said in their description (they are not). With some anti-armor and literally zero anti infantry.
  • Scout Helicopters: Nightbird
    • Heavy anti-infantry with light anti-armor (great at their job)
  • Attack Helicopters: Apache/ Hokum
    • Jack of all trades. Has anti air, anti-infantry, and Anti-armor. (Over Performing)
  • Transport: Condor / Hind
    • Anti-Ground primary and Support / anti-air as a secondary. (Tanks of the sky)

So, what are the categories that I believe were used to balance these vehicles? Here they are:

  • Anti-Armor
  • Anti-Air
  • Anti-Infantry
  • Team Support

However, the failure here is pushing too much into one or more of the aircraft while making others suffer. While also not really understanding the basic military use of each of these vehicles or their limitations (CONOPS). In real air combat, fighter jets are superior to helicopters in almost every way. A helicopter is used either for transportation, recon, or for close air to ground support and NOT anti-air. Look at this simple wiki search which requires zero military background.

“An attack helicopter is an armed helicopter with the primary role of an attack aircraft, with the offensive capability of engaging ground targets such as enemy infantrymilitary vehicles and fortifications. Due to their heavy armament they are sometimes called helicopter gunships.” Where in this definition does “anti-air” come up? Just because it is an “attack aircraft” role doesn’t literally mean it ATTACKS aircraft.

They were not even really seen in combat in the US until the Vietnam war. Sure the French had them first, but let’s not pick at points here. Planes on the other hand have been long reigning champions of the sky. Sparring with a fighter jet with even our most advanced US or Russian choppers is doomed to fail more often than it succeeds, and I don’t feel like this will change in the next 20+ years. So where do choppers and jets differ?

Choppers have the following traits that jets do not:

  1. Superior stationary turning & braking
  2. Superior flight close to ground (horizontal maneuverability)
  3. Ability to remain stationary/ suppress on target (Better VTOL)
  4. Exceptional air to ground support (primarily against infantry and vehicles)
  5. Smaller profile harder to spot

Jets have the following traits choppers do not:

  1. Superior top speed
  2. Superior maximum altitude
  3. Superior air to air combat (at range)
  4. Superior acceleration
  5. Exceptionally hard to target

While the Dev’s succeeded in making choppers as dangerous as they became on the REAL battlefield. They failed at making the jets the king of the skies as they were meant to be. In 2042 two of the most important functions of a fighter jet were ignored, their superior altitude and their air-to-air combat. What makes Jets the optimal choice of the sky is they can accelerate faster, climb higher, and chase down/outrun any chopper in the air space. A fact that has sorely been overlooked. For those who say simply stop choppers from sky boxing and change the altitude. That only fixes part of the problem because here comes the other. 

What makes matters worse is that the jets themselves have balance issues making one more functional as anti-air than the other. While VTOL of an F-35 is a cool addition to fighter jets. Sacrificing the turning speed of the plane to “make it fair” hurt its chances against the Felon. Yes, can you VTOL an unsuspecting Felon pilot? Sure, but it feels more of an act of desperation rather than a proper counter to the felon’s turn dominance. Any good pilot will just keep their distance from the F-35 and react to the VTOL. This leaves the F-35 literally helpless to the Felon in terms of dog fighting. However, the F-35 can down enemy choppers in ways the Felon cannot. VTOL becomes a powerful tool to stay on a target longer, shoot down choppers, and then jet away. Both planes have exceptional skills and design! However when pitted against each other the Felon is the superior dog fighter hands down and most agree. Which is why I feel like they should not be the only option of a team. By making both plane variants available to both teams, rebalancing choppers, and adding more functionality to transport vehicles. We can solve many of these issues. Let’s get started:

(NEW) Anti-Air Vehicles:

I have broken down both planes into two primary “archetypes”. While both are “capable” of doing either job. One archetype will always be superior to the other. Dog fighters are “Felon” class jets with great agility in the air and the hunter of planes. Chopper killers are VTOL planes that can hover and stick to choppers like glue. To make this work two new planes will need to be added.

Dog Fighter Jets:

  • Stats:
    • Firepower: 75
    • Survival: 60
    • Maneuver: 40
    • Speed: 95
  • F-22 Raptor
    • Anti-Jet/Transport
    • Anti-Armor
  • SU-57 Felon
    • Anti-Jet/Transport
    • Anti-Armor

The Raptor is one of the kings of dog fighting currently. Making a 2042 version of the raptor for the US side and replacing the Panther as the go to for killing planes would be perfect. They would still have the ability to engage armor units but would suck against infantry and be only regularly effective against choppers. (Which most planes do right now). However, the US Raptor would have the specs of the Felon allowing it the same turning speed and equalizing the playing field. A simple reskin/ design of the Felon to make it look like a raptor is much easier than building a new plane. 

Chopper/Infantry Killer Jets:

  • Stats:
    • Firepower: 70
    • Survival: 70
    • Maneuver: 50
    • Speed: 80 (slower than dogfighters)
  • F-35 Panther
    • Anti-Chopper
    • Anti-Infantry
  • Yak-141 “Puma” (fictional”ish”)
    • Anti-Chopper
    • Anti-Infantry

Currently (in reality) Russia doesn’t really have an answer to the F-35 that we know of. Their closest plane is the Yak-141 (hate the name) which is no longer in service. However, Russia is developing a plane with VTOL so this would be a good time to resurrect this former VTOL craft. Like the F-35 Panther, the "futuristic" Yak 141 would have VTOL enabling it to engage and destroy choppers exceptionally well. I’d definitely rename it to say the “SU-45 Puma” mimicking the “panther” idea. These planes due to their VTOL would also have the ability to engage ground targets as well. But we will get into that with gadgets and status here in a second. A simple reskin/ design of the Panther to make it look like a Puma is much easier than building a new plane. 

(NEW) Transport Vehicles: Solving the vehicle call problem.

One of the major issues a lot of players have been complaining about is the fact you can call butt loads of vehicles at any given time on the map. In such ridiculous ways such as on top of buildings and just spam abusing the feature. Many people want the “call vehicle” feature to be removed altogether, however I am not sold on that idea. I like the option to call in vehicles on the map and would love to keep it in the game. However, I feel that the current system is too liberal and honestly completely unrealistic. Being able to just spam a button and have a vehicle spawn out of the ether to fall at your feet seems like a large break from the “realism” of the game. Additionally, there are very few restrictions to how this feature is used. So, lets fix this while we are at it!

(NEW) Vehicle Transport Plane: US C-17 Ghoul / RU AN124 Iron Rain

  • Concept
    • (3 seats)
    • Long range anti-ground support
    • Some anti-air defenses
    • Vehicle transport and delivery
  • SUPPORT Role IDEA
    • The idea behind this plane is to replace the automated “vehicle call” of the game and place it in the hands of players. The C-17 is not a troop carrier but a vehicle carrier. Like a Bomber of older battlefields this plane would be able to “drop” vehicles on location. But how? Well, the system is already in place.
    • Players will have the ability to place “calls” on the map as they normally would. These “calls” would create an “Beacon” in the sky that the friendly C-17 could see. The plane would then fly over the location and drop a vehicle to parachute to the ground. The vehicle dropped would be whatever the player on the ground requested.
    • The C-17 would only have so many vehicle tokens it could drop at a time. With a cooldown that would replenish the stock over time.
  • ATTACK IDEA:
    • The C-17 would function like the AC-130 with a side mounted 40mm cannon or a 105-howitzer cannon and a high-powered zoom. It would be slow firing with limited ammo but precise aim and long reload. Allowing it to attack ground troops from long distances in the air. It would also have a turret to provide some defense from aerial vehicles. The following seats would exist: 
      • Seat 1: Pilot
        • Flies plane, has countermeasures, repair, and drops vehicle cargo
      • Seat 2: Left side primary gunner
        • 40mm cannon or Howitzer cannon to engage ground targets
      • Seat 3: Right side secondary gunner
        • Operates a single 7.62 turret on planes bottom
      • Seat 4: Recon / spotter
        • Operates spotter bubble on bottom of plane

Role:

The C-17/An-124 would function as a long-range recon, anti-ground vehicle, and vehicle delivery system. The cannons would deal splash damage similar to the Condor primary cannon at a longer range. It would run off jet engines but have a slower top speed and acceleration. It would have exceptionally low maneuverability similar to the condor but would not have VTOL ability. Due to its primary weapons being on only the left side of the plane. The C-17 would have to circle objectives (pylon turns) in order to engage targets. Additionally, the pilot would either risk flying low to deliver vehicles faster to the ground or drop them at high altitude with a longer drop time and risk them being destroyed by enemy forces. These planes would be hard countered by fighter jets due to their vulnerability in the air but fly far from ground dangers.

Token Breakdown:

The other primary change would be separating tokens properly. With two jet variants, chopper variants, and transport variants I think it would be easy to separate each by their class. Players should have to pick either between the Apache/Hokum or the nightbird.

Helicopters:

  • US Apache / RU Hokum
  • US/RU Nightbird

Jets:

  • US F-22 Raptor/ RU Felon
  • US Panther/ RU SU 45 Puma

Transport:

  • US Condor / RU Hind
  • US C-17 “Ghoul” / RU AN-124 “Iron Rain”

Aerial Vehicle Loadout options and Stats:

Air vehicles would need additional weapon systems/stats in order be separated below reviews the new weapons and systems:

Fighter Jets: UPDATED 2/20/22

  • Dog Fighters: Felon / Raptor
    • Stats:
      • Firepower: 75
      • Survival: 60
      • Maneuver: 40
      • Speed: 95
    • Guns
      • 25 mm cannon
      • (NEW) 25 mm AP incendiary cannon 
        • Fires AP incendiary rounds that direct damages air vehicles and deals damage over time. Tic damage is 1 tic per second and continues 3 seconds after last shot is fired.
        • The idea behind this weapon is to counter the condor / hind repair tactic. By adding tic damage to the rounds it will slow the amount of damage repair teams can recover from. It should be balanced in a way that it doesn't over power the repair ability but definitely weakens it. 
    • Missiles
      • (NEW) Long Range IR Missiles
        • Increased lock on distance of enemy aircraft. Higher damage to air and ground vehicles. Can be fired in pairs by long holding fire button.
        • 2 warhead stock / same reload as IR missiles / Longest range IR missile
      • (NEW) Air & Ground Radar Missiles (ARM)
        • Radar missiles that can lock onto enemy ground vehicles and aircraft after being fired. Slow radiation seeking missiles with medium damage to air and armor vehicles.
        • 2 warhead stock / same reload as Radar Missile / Same damage as Radar Missile / Same Range as Radar Missile / Low Damage to Heavy Armor Ground Vics
      • (NEW) Delayed arm anti air missile (DAAAM)
        • A delayed fire radar missile that is dropped beneath the jet and then attempts to acquire a chasing target. Designed to attack vehicles chasing the user and best used when flying in a straight line. User must be using rear view to acquire a target lock. 
        • 2 warhead stock / same reload as Radar Missile / Same damage as Radar Missile / Same Range as Radar Missile / Similar targeting as Radar Missile
        • Detailed Explanation: This missile takes some explaining. The DAAM would be an anti-chase weapon that is designed to attack the attacker. If a player is being chased by an enemy pilot. They look to the rear and fire the missile. The missile will keep its direction of flight at a very slow pace and drop back. Once the enemy jet passes the missile if the player is still looking in the rear view mode. The missile will lock and attempt to hit the chasing craft. They would have a longer reload time than the Radar missiles and a longer time between shots. 
    • Counter Measures
      • Flares
      • (NEW) EMP Area burst
        • Fires a projectile behind aircraft that detonates releasing an emp burst that lingers in the area. The EMP detonates incoming missiles on contact and disables weapon systems of enemy planes that fly through the affected area for a short time. (Like hack)
    • Support
      • Repair
      • (NEW) Advanced Detection Radar passive ability
        • Gives directional warning of enemies when the enemy locks on and shows vehicle nameplates at further distances. Automatically marks air vehicles that are within a certain proximity of jet. 
  • Anti-Chopper / Infantry Jets: Panther / Puma
    • Stats:
      • Firepower: 70
      • Survival: 70
      • Maneuver: 50
      • Speed: 80 (slower than dogfighters)
    • Guns
      • (NEW) 25 mm long barrel cannon
        • Precision cannon allowing accurate strafing of infantry and other aircraft. 
        • long sustained fire increases weapon inaccuracy as weapon overheats / over heat similar to 25 cannon
      • (NEW) dual 7.62 miniguns
        • Allows close air to ground support of infantry with effective success. 
        • same overheat speed of nightbird miniguns / same damage / same range / gun convergence more accurate. 
    • Missiles/Rockets:
      • IR Missile
      • 70 mm anti-personnel rockets.
      • (NEW) Rapid Air and Ground Smart Rockets
        • Smart munition rockets. Aim assisted, which seek air vehicles directly ahead of it.  Rockets will attempt find a lock on aerial or enemy armor vehicles after launch. While low damage. The rockets can be fired in quick succession with little warning to the enemy. 
        • Fire rate of 127mm rockets / Rocket speed of smart rockets / 8 rocket stock / 6 strikes to kill aircraft or armor / reload time slower than unguided rockets
    • Counter Measures
      • Flares
      • (NEW) Thermite Dust Stream
        • Releases a stream of highly charged thermite dust behind jet. While enemy aircraft are in the dust stream, lock ons are disabled, dust accumulates on window steadily obscuring vision, and afterburners of enemy aircraft will disable.
    • Support
      • Repair
      • (NEW) Stealth Mode
        • Prevents enemy radar systems from detecting location of the vehicle, damage markers are disabled, and prevents enemy spotting for a period of time.
        • This concept is really my selling point for the Panther/Puma VTOL planes. Stealth Mode turns these VTOL menaces into stealth assassins of choppers and allow them to hide from enemy jets to avoid dog fights or reposition. You have to physically spot these bad boys when they are in stealth (although they can still be AA locked). 

Helicopters:

  • Apache / Hokum (tank busters)
    • STATS
      • UNCHANGED
    • Gunner
      • UNCHANGED
    • Rockets
      • (NEW) Rapid Air & Ground smart Rockets
        • Smart munition rockets. Aim assisted, which seek air vehicles directly ahead of it.  Rockets will attempt find a lock on aerial or enemy armor vehicles after launch. While low damage. The rockets can be fired in quick succession with little warning to the enemy. 
        • Fire rate of 127mm rockets / Rocket speed of smart rockets / 8 rocket stock / 6 strikes to kill aircraft or armor / reload time slower than unguided rockets
      • 127 mm anti vehicle rockets (unchanged)
      • 70 mm anti-personnel rockets (unchanged)
    • Missiles:
      • (NEW) AGM 142 "Have Nap"
        • Long Range AGM that locks and damages armored vehicles. Deals significant damage to armored vehicles and will destroy light armored vehicles. It's devastation more than makes up for its long lock on and reloading time.
        • 1 warhead stock / Travel speed of AGM / Reload of Wire guided missile / 2 shot kill on heavily armored vehicles / 1 shot kill on light armor / Long lock on time. 
      • (NEW) Wire Guided Anti- Infantry Missile (WGAIM)
        • Wire guided missile designed for anti-personnel use. High splash damage in a medium impact zone that damages light armor vehicles and infantry. Heavy damage makes up for manual aiming and long reload.
        • 1 warhead stock / Travel of Wire Guided Missile / Reload of Wire guided missile / Follows crosshairs / Fatal up damage at 0-15 meter radius, heavy damage at 25 meter radius. 
    • Counter Measures:
      • Flares
      • (NEW) Lock Scrambler
        • Disrupts enemy targeting systems instantly breaking locks and extends the time of relocking. Does not affect radar missiles.
    • Support:
      • Repair
      • (NEW) Rapid Reload
        • Allows vehicle to instantly reload primary and cooldown gunner weapon.
  • Night Bird:
    • STATS
      • UNCHANGED
    • Guns
      • UNCHANGED
    • Rockets/Missiles
      • UNCHANGED
    • Commander Seat
      • Equipment Slot 1
        • (NEW) Advanced Equipment Scan
          • Tapping the button marks a single enemy revealing the to the team for a short time. Holding the button while aiming at an enemy marks then enemy for a longer period and gives an advanced information window to all teammates that are looking at that enemy. 
            • Player Info: Reveals players primary weapon, specialist passive, and gear
            • Vehicle Info: Reveals vehicles weapon systems, and equipment. Reveals if equipment is ready or not. 
    • Counter Measures
      • NEW Threat Assessment Upgrade
        • Adds a new feature to the Detection Pulse. Activating detection pulse will color all enemies green yellow or red, based on their threat to the players vehicle.
          • Green: No weapons the pose a significant threat, and rockets or missiles, and no lock on gear. 
          • Yellow: Player has M5 recoilless rocket or SOFLAM
          • Red: Player has AA Missile.
    • Support
      • Repair
      • (NEW) Whisper Mode
        • Removes radar signature on enemy radar and silences rotary noise for a period of time.

Transport Vehicles:

  • (NEW) C-17 Ghoul / AN-124 Iron Rain
    • Stats
      • Firepower: 65
      • Survival: 80
      • Maneuver: 40
      • Speed: 70
    • Pilot
      • (NEW) Vehicle delivery system
        • Vehicle has an expanded cargo haul enabling up to 2 vehicles to be transported and delivered to ground troops. Vehicles may be dropped at marked locations by friendly units. (Long cooldown for vehicle replenishment)
      • Counter Measures
        • Flares
      • Support
        • Repair system
      • Seat 1
        •  Weapon
          • LR 50mm incendiary Cannon
            • A precision cannon designed to defeat all but the heaviest armored vehicles. Medium ROF means user must carefully pick their targets instead of spray.
          • (NEW) 105mm Howitzer Cannon
            • High velocity high explosive projectile that has moderate splash damage but a slower ROF and limited ammo. Allows for area control.
        • Seat 2
          • Minigun mount on plane bottom
        • Seat 3
          • Spotter and Recon
  • Condor /Hind: NEW UPDATES 2/20/22 I think we can all say with confidence that the Hind and the Condor when piloted by a group can easily gain air dominance on the battle field. That said, I have taken the liberty to nerf these beasts.
    • (NEW) Stats Update:
      • Fire Power: 70 (to accurately reflect its damage potential)
      • Survivability: 80 (unchanged)
      • Maneuverability: 50 (evens out movement)
      • Speed: 60 (down from 70, both hind and condor should not be able to keep up with jets)
    • (NEW) 7.62 Minigun Pods:
      • Sustained fire decreases gun pod accuracy (meaning the longer you hold the trigger the more the guns bloom increases at range)
      • Increase damage drop off of miniguns 
    • COUNTER MEASURES:
      • (NEW) Early Threat Alert System ETAS passive ability
        • Alerts all gunner HUD's and shows direction of enemy locks. Instantly marks any enemy attempting to lock on the vehicle on the gunner SCREEN ONLY, and only while the Gunner can see the enemy. (essentially, this allows gunners to attempt to kill enemy units that are trying to fire AA missiles at them. The alert will ping the side of the screen in the direction of the person trying to lock in order to guide the gunner towards them. Once the enemy trying to lock is on the gunner's screen, the enemy is immediately marked. This only marks the enemy that attempts the lock. Thus it won't work on the M5 even if it is fired after a soflam). 

 

Conclusion: Meaningful Choices "edited"

Before I get flamed for removing the AA missiles from the Apache / Hoku. Understand that in the real world there would never be a situation where a Heli took on a fighter jet. By removing the AA missiles and adding Smart rockets that “semi lock” on targets. This provides some protection for the chopper in addition to the gunner. While also not making them so powerful that they can easily subdue a fighter jet. Simply the overall goal here is making the roles that these vehicles are intended for. Fighter Jets are designed with one mission in mind, to engage and destroy all aerial vehicles that threaten the ground forces. Helicopters provide close air SUPPORT. Their mission is to engage and destroy primary threats on the ground for ground forces. Everything that is in the air plays a support role to the primary mission resource which is the infantry/ground forces. Failing to calibrate those roles properly destroys the balance of CONOPS which is literally what these games are made from. Meaningful choices are essential to core gameplay and enjoyable matches. Let me know what you think.

40 Replies

  • It’s threads like this that should get pinned to the top. 

    I’m sure there are similar threads, so perhaps mods could cycle pinned threads weekly/ bi- weekly.

    these are the most valuable threads I think on the forum and should get the attention they deserve, and not lost behind the droll.

  • @Psubond nothing wrong with people commenting on an old post. Specially to say thanks or recommend stuff. I like to keep the conversation living. I don't believe in necropost's.
  • dfk_7677's avatar
    dfk_7677
    4 years ago

    @killroywuzhere03 
    I really hope this post gains traction with the devs. This was the other reason I wrote, more answers, more visibility. You did a very thorough job and I think most of us hope for that level of analysis on gameplay by the devs making the game. Not in any way underestimating the ones that worked on vehicles, but taking ideas from post like yours, would make the end product much better.

  • @killroywuzhere03 Jets are OP Agains any Air besides a fully manned Condor or Hind ..

    Jets are just anoying and does not belong . Not fun to play with not fun to play against ..

    The remooval of jets would be the best option for everyone
  • @Stew360 While I see where you are coming from. I highly disagree with the statement that jets are OP. They definietly dont need to be removed as they play a huge role in balance.

    Lets talk about role vs. skill for a second. Jets by their role are meant to counter or at least threaten any other air vehicle in the sky. However they are also meant to require the most skill to use. Current Jets fail on both catagories.

    First they are laughably inferior to most every areial vehicle in the game. Yes they move and climb faster than any other air vehicle in the game. But in terms of threat they are more of a pest rather than a creditable threat.

    Right now all other air vehicles have a major counter to Jets in the form of sky boxing. If a seasoned chopper or transpo pilot knows there is even a half decent fighter jet in the sky all they have to do is climb and wait. Eventually the jet will either engage them or ignore them and get caught off guard. I have tried both tactics. If I engage I am basically fighting head to head with a chopper at its most dangerous angle where you will fail. While ignoring them keeps them out of the fight effectively doing my job since they are at max alti and cannot harass my team. However if I am not constantly aware of them I will end up dead.

    Now thats just one very effective counter to jets. The more egregious offender is the duck and dodge missile tactic used by choppers. Ever see a missile on a good lock heading directly for your target only to suddenly orbit the chopper and explode in the air? If you have, you have experienced this chopper tactic. Whats even worse is it requires no real skill to execute. I have literally watched youtube vids on people macroing this tactic down to a single button push. So not only do you have to bait a flare to engage you have to contend with an unrealistic mechanic that makes missiles of all kinds useless. This leaves only your cannons to deal trusted damage to a chopper. Of which only one is somewhat useful.

    This is why you see so many seasoned fighters using AGMs and Cannons. If you cant beat the choppers join them in attacking ground forces. Leaving choppers to just farm infantry all day.

    This should never have been the meta or the intent for jets. In addition due to their inability to engage ground targets well. It reduces their overall impact in a match. For every map I play a Jet, I realize I am doing so knowing their is a better vehicle option in the form of the apache, nightbird, or condor. As not only are these vehicles dangerous to ground forces they are dangerous to air as well. I have a much easier time going toe to toe with a nightbird in anything other than a jet. This rings true with almost every other vehicle combination.

    Now as for skill. Id say choppers require even more skill to master when compared to jets. With the biggest reward for mastering them. As a master in a nightbird or attack chopper will wipe the floors with a jet.

    So to say Jets are OP is like saying the earth is flat. Its just not based in reality. If youre a chopper pilot and are having problems with jets. Just look up the missle dodge tactic and it will change your world. Its stupid easy to learn even easier to macro and is largely effective. After you master that then tell me Jets are OP. Outside of that if you have any other examples of them being OP id love to talk about them!
  • Stew360's avatar
    Stew360
    4 years ago
    @killroywuzhere03
    Well let me rephrase .

    Jets dont belong in the game .. They do not period

    Jets are just an anoyance , and lead to anoying and boring gameplay ..

    The only two things that can realistically take down a jets without wasting 1 hours doing so are mostly Other jets or fully manned Condors ...

    Its the way it is and its boring .. Boring to play as a jet pilot , insanely boring to play against a jet pilot if not in a jet yourself .. If i wanted to play Ace combat i would play that and have more fun .. But in this setup jets simply do not belong .
  • @Stew360 Then by that point no air vehicles belong and should be removed. Each vehicle has their own function. Choppers provide CAS, Transpo provides support and tacitcal advantages, Jets are predators that keep Choppers and Transpo in check.

    Now as for destroying Jets. Yes if you are out to hunt air vehicles then condors (currently) and other jets are the most effective at Killing jets. Or a coordinated effort of choppers can also do so. This is because Jets can boom and zoom choppers with ease. However it takes as long to down a good chopper as it takes to down a good pilot. And there are obvious advantages I mentioned with choppers that outclass jets.

    If you are chasing Jets in a Chopper you are not using Choppers right as they are for close air support CAS and not anti air. Can you definitely attack and down jets with choppers? Certainly but they are not built for that task nor should they be.

    Just saying Jets are boring and dont belong isnt enough for me Stew. You gotta tell me more... Why are they boring and why are they annoying? Because they are hard to kill?
  • @dfk_7677 I appreciate you ressurecting my post! I can tell you I know that someone at EA/Dice has looked at my post. They didnt comment on here but they pinged my post with XP. This is a common tactic to silently "flagging" my post to go back to later. Does that mean they will use any of my ideas? That we will never know as they will never openly state they got the idea from me (Legal issues and such).

    However if I inspire them and some of these ideas do make it into the game. It will make me happy because it will make the community happy. So long as they are well received ofcourse lol.

    I have experienced this in other game forums (Paragon and League of Legends). Where some of my changes or reworks made it to the devs and into the game. I was never credited privately or publicly except for a silent nod. I can honestly say though I never more joy than seeing those ideas come to life and excite the players. So heres to hoping!

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