[Discussion Thread] Battlefield Briefing: Development Update, May 2022

@UnKnOwn_1628042It punishes solo players, because it prevents them from utilizing gadget combinations that are possible in squads. It prevents them from choosing gadgets that fit with the role they want to play. With classic gadget restrictions, a solo player cannot be a medic / support hybrid - it's impossible. Any hybrid role is impossible for them.

With visual distinction, they don't need to make every gadget immediately recognizable. They just need to make the look recognizable towards one of the four classes. If you role a Spawn Beacon and Ammo, then you'll look like a Recon / Support hybrid. Revive and RPG? Then you'll look like a Medic / Engineer hybrid. Just enough to make it easy to guess what types of gadgets a player will have at a glance, like any other installment. Any gadget that is labeled as "Medic" would give the player a medic vest, as though they had picked Medic.

I would say Battlefield is first and foremost a team-oriented, combined arms, sandbox shooter. Strip out traditional classes, and I believe it would enhance the teamplay aspect of it. This is because the gadgets ARE the roles. Give players full freedom over their gadget choices, and suddenly they have the power to fill the shortcomings of a team.

For me anyway, it helps with the issue of - "We need an engineer!", "We need ammo!", "We need medics!!". I can make a compromise, and run revives and an RPG if I see that our team is dropping ammo. Or if there's ammo scarcity, I can roll revives and ammo. I have the power to round out the team composition (or even the squad's composition). It allows me to adjust my kit to my team's needs. Put differently, gadget restrictions would prevent me from maximizing my impact to the team.

@A_Cool_Gorilla The Hybrid System that you wanted is bad because if any players can equip any gadgets they wanted they can become a one man army and it will be an unbalanced uncontrolled chaotic mess, sure you can make a support hybrid system but think about it, a sniper player can equip both ammo bag and launcher can make himself/herself a one man army instead of relying into his/her teammates due to the system. The hybrid system that you wanted will just enforces more players to become a one man army and efforces more solo players to become selfish instead of relying his/her teammates. The class system was created was because it enforces teamplay among the players and to stick with their teammates instead of playing it like Call Of Duty, hell even BF4 while the game has a class based system you can still be a selfish agressive player or a agressive team play player if you wanted.

Lastly you said that Battlefield is a team oriented combined arms sandbox and what do you think that causes the team oriented gameplay aspect of it? It is because of the class system that efforces players to be with their squad than just playing it solo like you're playing Call of Duty Game sure you can play solo in most Battlefield games but sticking with your teammates and choosing the right class is what benefits your team alot unlike the hybrid system that you wanted since the system you wanted will just benefits the players to be more selfish and be a one man army instead of helping your team

While the map changes look better, what you are showing us is closed alpha levels of design.  With random blockades scattered about it just screams paintball arena...not war torn cities ravaged by climate change. The changes in terrain elevations is a nice change though but won't be what brings people back to the game.  

The community has spoke time and again as to what might revive this corpse.  It's up to you (EA/DICE) to act upon those inputs.  If you aren't going to, at least say so openly.  Tell us you refuse to do a server browser, tell us you won't fix squads, tell us you won't fix the specialist problem.

The least EA/DICE could do is be honest with their investors and the BF community. A basic statement that says, "We are going to put minimum effort/resources into the next 4 seasons and it will only be supported for a year (or until we meet our legal obligation in accordance with our lawyers). We intent to push our mobile Battlefield title and might look into Battlefield on major systems if we can figure out how monitize it better." 

Overall, this is a paltry showing after 9 months.

@UnKnOwn_1628042Not at all. It's impossible to be a one-man-army, when any player is limited to just two gadgets. By using a hybrid role, the player is replacing one piece of utility for another. They're making a compromise in order to facilitate a more relevant purpose. If a player uses both ammo and launcher, then they're unable to revive teammates, repair vehicles, heal themselves, or utilize any other gadget. They're merely being given more flexibility over their contribution to the team.

I wouldn't say the class system actually improves squad play. We can see this in games like Squad and Hell Let Loose where solo play is heavily punished. Despite this, squad play is even more frustrating than ever, with optimal play being entirely dependent on you getting ideal squadmates that bother to communicate and coordinate. Players that want to play for kills will simply play for kills, and nothing will change that. What it does is it hinders my ability to play the meta. If I find another like-minded player, we still can't form a good composition given the rigid class roles. It makes coordination a requirement to optimal squad compositions, and as a consequence it hinders team oriented players from making the best of a bad situation.

The peak level of squad play hasn't changed, as in either case communication, coordination, ideal squad composition, and maximum utility will give the squad an undeniable advantage. However, it did impact the capabilities of incomplete squads, preventing the active members of the squad from playing at their best.

The gadgets provide you with the utility to build your role - that's what creates the supply and demand of teamwork. You can only choose two pieces of utility, and as a result you will need to rely on others to fill in the rest of compositional demands.

@A_Cool_Gorilla 2042 can already revive any player no matter what specialist they use so that's a minus, plus the auto healing in this game is faster than any Battlefield that I've played so using health crate isn't as important as the old Battlefield Games same goes for the auto repair system in vehicles which makes the repair tools in this game useless so using the Hybrid System you wanted will just make the player more overpowered and will just benefit them to become a one man army with this loadouts, yes you said the same thing about giving players flexibility to contribute into their team but think about most players are selfish one way or another including me why would me or other players should use a certain gadget that coul help my teammates if could benefit myself more since the game promotes it unlike using the restricted gadget system, Also you can still play the meta you wanted using the class gadget restriction although not just the gadget you wanted since the gadgets are restricted based on the Specialist's class. 

Also the change that I created is just a simple change since you can't use the hybrid system that you wanted due to the Specialist having their own abilities while the 2nd gadget is open which is a bad system that's why their changing it so that the game can be balance, the change that most people wanted is to remove the specialist and change it with the traditional classes or the 2nd comprise which most players wanted that is turning the Specialist into classes by just restricting the gadgets that the certain specialist can bring based on the Specialist's class while letting everyone equip any weapon that they wanted and Specialist still have their own gadgets.

The problem you have with the squad isn't the reason why the Class-based gadget restrictions is hard but it is the Squad Management system that 2042 lacks unlike in the past Battlefield game, you can't join other's squad or leave the current squad you're currently placed in, in old Battlefield games Class System was an big issue due to letting the players join other's squad that is more active or leave the squad that you're placed in that squad isn't active.

Lastly the Hell at Loose and Squad games that you've mentioned are milsim games that's why you can't equip any weapons that you wanted same goes equip any attachment but they did the gadget system right like the old Battlefield games it is restricted based on the class that you've pick or the specialist' class. Battlefield is an team oriented class based arcade shooter unlike Squad or Hell at Loose and Battlefield isn't also Call of Duty since where you can equip any gadget you wanted on that game but not what Battlefield is, that's why 2042 failed was because it tried to copy Call of Duty and Apex instead of being of it's own.

@A_Cool_Gorilla The class-based gadget restrictions is makes what Battlefield a Battlefield game which is a team-oriented class based shooter in the first place plus the issue you have with balance to accommodate the class-based gadget restrictions is easy to balance out due to the class-based gadget restrictions which is easy to balance it out unlike letting everyone use any gadget that they've wanted since the open system is what causes the gameplay to be unbalanced again look at how Battlefield 4 Class System it is balanced compared to this game sure there are high picked classes such as the Assault or Engineer but they still need to rely on Support for ammo and Recon for information and spawns in order to be more effective and that game also flexibility for solo players because they can still pick universal weapons whenever they like for example Recons with Carbines instead of using a sniper rifle as your main weapon and if you really wanted solo players to be flexibility too the full extent then Battlefield isn't for you since most people including me plays Battlefield for Battlefield not Apex or Call of Duty or Fornite, The staple class system what makes Battlefield a unique game compared to other games that's why we like it in the first place then DICE remove the class system in this game that's like Putting a loadout system in Halo 4 or removing the red dot and ninja perk in Call of Duty Modern Warfare which both cause massive outrage and dissatisfaction among the playerbase. Since DICE stated that the Specialist are here to stay including their own abilities, that's why DICE are reworking the specialist system into making them into classes and most of the playerbase that wanted a comprise is to just Restrict the Gadgets on the what the Specialist can bring based on the Specialist's Class while making the weapons universal and let the players choose any weapons they wanted for a little bit of flexibility in that we can still use any weapon that we wanted but gadget that we brought is restricted based on the specialist class that we choose while DICE can make release another set of Specialist with their own abilitie

@UnKnOwn_1628042That very argument was made with the Frostbite titles. How can these games be Battlefield, with health regen, 4 player squads, full squad spawning, unlimited sprint, reserve ammo as bullets instead of magazines, removal of custom squads, unlimited vehicle ammo, etc.

The answer of course, is that franchises change and evolve. And as I've said, full gadget freedom doesn't create imbalance - the imbalance was already there for squads to exploit. I'd say any problematic combination would need to be balanced from the start.

@A_Cool_Gorilla The things that you've mentioned is what Battlefield is a Battlefield game is, health regen are still in the old Battlefield game but isn't as strong as in this game, 4 players squad existed way back  Bad Company sure it isnt the similar to the squad number of what Battlefield 2 has, Squad Spawning was added in Battlefield 3 and so forth, yes the game should evolve but the game shouldn't remove the core gameplay foundations of what makes a certain game a certain game like what 2042 did by removing the classes system again it's like removing the red dot in mini-map in Call of Duty or putting a load out system in Halo games which is a bad thing, You can let the game to evolve but dont fix or remove what isn't broken like the Class System or the Class-Based Gadget restrictions in Battlefield games. Again the full gadget freedom causes the game to become an unbalanced mess since it will just enforces players to become a one man army instead of relying into their teammates which what Battlefield is relying into your teammates because the gadget that you bring are limited based on what class or what specialist's class did you pick

@UnKnOwn_1628042Health regen was introduced with Bad Company 2. The squad size was lowered with Bad Company (instead of 6). None of the changes I mentioned were "Battlefield" when they were introduced, and they were all done with or after Bad Company.

I'm arguing the class system is broken, so that's why I want to see it removed. I see it as holding the franchise back.

@A_Cool_GorillaThere's a reason they called it Bad Company as it is a derivative of BF. It is not a mainline battlefield title. The class system is at the heart and soul of the BF series. What 2042 has is a vestige of a hero shooter corpse reanimated.

@-DFA-ThumpThose changes bled into the mainline games as well. What the "heart and soul" of the franchise is, is subjective. I see it as a problem that the franchise should have fixed with Battlefield 2.

@A_Cool_Gorilla The class system isn't broken heck it's even more balanced than the specialist system and the hybrid system that you've wanted, why are you still saying that the Class System in Battlefield is broken even though it isn't Battlefield 4 with the class system already proved that the class system can be balanced even there there are some strong weapons available to a certain class that's why make evolve the class system by letting the players equip any weapon that they wanted but the gadgets are still restricted based on the class that you've pick or the specialist's class that you've pick also the Class System isn't the reason why it's holding back the franchise but how the game is develop removing the core gameplay foundations of the game instead of making new features as an evolution like the levolution system in Battlefield 4 that is an evolution not removing the class system which is staple and bread and butter of the franchise it's like putting a loadouts system in Halo because the weapon and power spawns on each map where the player require to another player for it holds back the franchise, that's just a bad idea

@-DFA-Thump Finally someone with a good idea knows what makes Battlefield game a Battlefield game

@UnKnOwn_1628042BF4 is also subject to the issues I talked about. Being unable to optimize my loadout to better fit the team's needs. It's an issue inherent with restriction.

I'm tired of the system. I want to be able to maximize my teamplay, which the traditional class system does not allow solo players to do.

@A_Cool_Gorilla That's why if you're tired with this system and you wanted to optimize your loadouts to the fullest extent then Battlefield isn't for you since there are many game that is similar to Battlefield that let's you optimize your loadouts to the fullest extent like the incoming MWII ground war is coming back and it let's you optimize your loadouts to the fullest extent there's also WW3 game that allows you to do that also

@A_Cool_Gorilla That's why I recommend you to play WW3 since that game is basically like Battlefield but with the hybrid system that you wanted plus the gadget also creates teamwork in that game, Let Battlefield be a Battlefield game simple as that.

@A_Cool_Gorilla Yeah but we're taking about 2042 where any Specialist can revive any players they wanted plus there is a specialist like Angel that uses ammo crate and a loadout system on his abilities by combining that system you wanted, Angel is basically a one man army player which is currently happening with Angel right now same goes for Sundance's grenade

@A_Cool_GorillaIt's more than just gadget type, it also applies to available weapons. I really don't need a sniper that can be an medium range assault that can morph into a cqb assaulter on the fly. Your choice of class may put you at a disadvantage in a particular part of a map. But, you may be in a situation that demands going into that disadvantaged realm for the good for the team. Or it forces your team to pick up where you are not the best person at that moment. It's a layer of battlefield that gets stripped for instant gratification.