Does anyone else hate specialists?
After puting many hours into the beta, I came to one conclusion. Specialists suck! They make the game unrealistic in every way, they don't make sense, and this game didn't feel like a battlefield gam...
Forum Discussion
@dirtytamatoSpecialists are more “realistic” than classes, truly.
They are merely a different form of the class system and I have yet to hear a valid, coherent argument against the concept of specialists.
Most people just don’t like them for emotional or nostalgic reasons, which is fine, but that does not really invalidate the reality that they are not all that different from classes…
When anyone says something like 'I have yet to hear a valid, coherent argument' against something, what they mean to say is 'no matter what you say, I will claim it to be invalid and incoherent as my mind is already made up'.
Maybe that isn't the case here, but I struggle to believe that someone can come to these forums and make that claim.
Specialists could (heavy emphasis on could) be like a sub class within a class, however how anyone could claim the current specialist situation is like classes in any way is beyond me. What makes a class? Previously it was gun, gadgets and armour. Specialists can have any gun, any gadget and their armour tells you nothing about them.....
Now, most of the issues with specialists can be amended to make them less of an issue; things like having the same specialists on each team messing up enemy recognition, not knowing who is carrying ammo/medic kits, one specialist being better than the rest. All specialists looking the same as each other. With UI tweaks, faction specific colours, customisation and ongoing tweaks to specialists abilities this will evolve and could be fine, in time.
However, some things may be harder to solve, like how do you encourage the use of ammo/medikits over more fun/solo oriented gadgets I e. RPGs? Classes restricted your choice and even non-team oriented players would likely have to run a beneficial gadget that they may even use once or twice. The beta, not full game I know, had an overabundance of Mackay's and RPGs... Hopefully the full game doesn't settle on to such a meta. Multi-class guns, rather than specialists, would keep to those restrictions forcing players to pick useful teamplay gadgets, or even just restricting the gadgets each type of specialist can take - the latter seemingly a great half way house that could make both sides a bit more content.
I also liked classes as you knew what the enemy player could have, from gun type to gadgets, so knew whether to stay at range or rush in or if your tank was likely to be C4'd or RPG'd. This is gone with Specialists. This removes a tactical element that I liked that they can't get back.
The abilities are the biggest issue for me though, as it stands. Some seem very lacking and then you have wall hacks.... I can already see who most of the community will be playing as and with no restrictions on gun or gadget to help balance them, it is going to be a challenge for Dice. This will be a buff/nerf fest for the foreseeable future and including more specialists down the line will only add to this. Who wouldn't want to be the best specialist, with the best weapon and best gadget?
- @Tee_Doff2369 Nice post. I understand some of the arguments against specialists, like recognizing the enemies capabilities at a glance.. and balancing problems. One thing I don’t understand though is the argument that now no one will pick meds or ammo because they can have a rocket launcher. Isn’t this just the same as before? Some people selected support classes even when another class was ‘better’.. there are lotsa players out there that like to play the support role. I don’t see how the specialists suddenly will change that..
As for the OPs question: nope. Don’t hate them. Don’t care much for them either way.. not game breaking and it is still battlefield to me.- @mesterKG I don't think no one will pick ammo or meds, just going by what I saw in Beta it was very limited and the temptation to pick an RPG seemed too great. I expect it to start similar but work its way out as people get in to a teamplay mindset again, however I still think this may not quite be up to the level of past games.
The big question is around weapons. A lot of players will have chosen a class based on weapon and used the kit accordingly in past games. So in BF4 if you wanted an assault rifle you'd have to be a medic and use the tools that come with it - now would these players have used those tools if they didn't have too? I guess we are going to find out... I'm perhaps just a bit more pessimistic!
Conversely a lot of players may not have played as medic/support because they didn't like the weapons. So now they are free to do so...
Personally Angel seems to be who I'll play as, as a support/medic oriented specialist. I just hope the wall hack meta doesn't take hold!!!
@Tee_Doff2369I said exactly what I meant to say.
"...What makes a class? Previously it was gun, gadgets and armour. Specialists can have any gun, any gadget and their armour tells you nothing about them..... "
What makes a class is the combat role it performs, which was in the name. Those roles can and will still exist within the game, but there is simply more freedom and variety within and between them.
"...like how do you encourage the use of ammo/medikits over more fun/solo oriented gadgets I e. RPGs?..."
Ah yes, the age old question of Battlefield (and team-building in general): How do we make inherently selfish individuals behave and perform as a team? I do not believe Specialists are going to influence this problem one way or another. Those players that enjoy and participate in the team aspects of the game will continue to do so, while others will not.
"...This removes a tactical element that I liked that they can't get back."
Target prioritization is important, no doubt. However simply knowing how to deal with an enemy at a glance (no matter the range, many times) is unrealistic and in my opinion, stale over time. I would argue that this is one of, if not the most important, points of weapon optics... I will agree in general that this point is a valid concern overall though, since I have not seen consistent draw distances (and only on one map) that make this reliable enough.
Lastly, yes the meta game will be a bit crazier in Battlefield 2042, I agree. Constant tweaking has been part of most Battlefield games though and my only real hope is that EA DICE have not bitten off more than they can (or want) to chew... we will see.- @carsono311 Me too, with Specialists or Class System the selfish behavior will be there, always exists how many medics crossing arround you without revive? Support's dont using ammo box ... Engineers dont give atention to veichles, is a normal thing in all Battlefield, much more if you play solo is rarely encouter one guy, squad or the entire team playing for the objective and team play. This depends allways from the player, not the system
@lookcr wrote:
@carsono311Me too, with Specialists or Class System the selfish behavior will be there, always exists how many medics crossing arround you without revive? Support's dont using ammo box ... Engineers dont give atention to veichles, is a normal thing in all Battlefield, much more if you play solo is rarely encouter one guy, squad or the entire team playing for the objective and team play. This depends allways from the player, not the systemIIf we all took care of our squads all would be fine. What is unrealistic is lone combatants running round Rambo style not giving a hoot bout servicing other members of the team BF was - and still is a squad based game. Any soldier on their own is not playing the game properly whatever his/her KDR.
But, we all know that is not what many expect from a FPS these days.
