Re: You can't balance helis without playing them

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@SpudBug wrote:
@L3tH4l3rR0rI think one thing non-pilots need to understand is the difference between being in a vehicle that your team has 1 available for 32 or 64 people and being an infantry player.

You may be one of 10 people who wanted to use that vehicle.
You may not be able to use it again that match if you die.
You will have to wait almost 2 minutes to get it again if you die.
Learning how to be effective with the attack helicopters while staying alive is very difficult.

Now as an infantry player if you die, you join back in the game with your same loadout in 5 seconds. No problem. A heli pilot that dies without warning to a railgun tank that's sitting 800m away in the enemy spawn has to play a different way, or wait almost 2 minutes for the chance to play helicopter again.

Taking out the sole attack aircraft that a team gets should be difficult and it should be rewarding for the enemy team.

Right now it's rewarding, but it's not difficult. Theres so many "cheap deaths" that can come and give an undeserved advantage to a team by destroying the enemy helicopter.

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how is this for a tradeoff:  make helos basically ineffective in terms of splash damage against infantry and increase the number of vehicles (including air) and the vehicles can go aftre each other.  that way infantry isn't getting pounded constantly by air while they are trying to fight off infantry and ground vehicles.

can also reduce effectiveness of infantry against air as well since they won't be much of a threat to the infantry if the air has to actually hit a soldier with a rocket to kill him (like with Lis's missile)

@Psubondin that case why have any air power at all? why have tanks? remove everything, even guns, we just run around with fists entire game. If you have problems with air power you have the tools to deal with it, most players don't want to, they want to play whatever and just expect others to take the heli down.

Changing the entire game just to suit other players is unrealistic, better to have good maps with balance, Air power is apart of battlefield, if you do not like it you have other modes, other games as well. I love airpower can it be good at times yes, but it can also be very bad having 4 lis rockets spammed at you, but you can go against a crazy good player with LMG then what? nerf that into the ground too ?

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@L3tH4l3rR0r wrote:
@Psubondin that case why have any air power at all? why have tanks? remove everything, even guns, we just run around with fists entire game. If you have problems with air power you have the tools to deal with it, most players don't want to, they want to play whatever and just expect others to take the heli down.

Changing the entire game just to suit other players is unrealistic, better to have good maps with balance, Air power is apart of battlefield, if you do not like it you have other modes, other games as well. I love airpower can it be good at times yes, but it can also be very bad having 4 lis rockets spammed at you, but you can against a crazy good player with LMG then what? nerf that into the ground too ?

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if air can pound infantry then infantry needs to be able to shoot back effectively.  it can't be a one way street.  any time infantry shoots back helo pilots want whatever they are using nerfed.

if air can't be shot back at with a credible threat then they shouldn't be able to farm infantry

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@L3tH4l3rR0r wrote:
@PsubondThat's why we have stingers, javelin rocket, Lis rockets, AA tank, jets, also Helis, tanks, recoiless rockets, underbarrel launcher, you fail to see the bigger picture and want the game suited to your gameplay wants and needs. Unrealistic

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i'm not asking for any buffs to AA.  i merely propose if there are nerfs to AA then helos shouldn't be as effective against infantry and should have more vehicles added so all the vehicles can fight each other while infantry focus on infantry.  

ground vehicles would still be very strong against infantry but air could hunt the ground vehicles and each other.  infantry already have tools to fight back against ground.  infantry would be less effective against air and vice versa.  more pilot/ground vehicle seats available so the people who want to play those could have a better chance at getting them

or we could just leave everything alone.  i'm fine with that too (other than that stealth helo.  they shouldn't be able to drop bombs in stealth mode)

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@UP_LordPlumber wrote:
@PsubondAnd then you would have 2-3 ace pilots murdering everything in their path and you will be back here crying about overpowered vehicles.

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read what i wrote again.  i mentioned making splash damage non existant for air against infantry like they did with lis against infantry.  you can still kill but you need a direct hit.

or we just leave it as is with limited seats and infantry can shoot back.  idc either way

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@Psubond wrote:

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@SpudBug wrote:
@L3tH4l3rR0rI think one thing non-pilots need to understand is the difference between being in a vehicle that your team has 1 available for 32 or 64 people and being an infantry player.

You may be one of 10 people who wanted to use that vehicle.
You may not be able to use it again that match if you die.
You will have to wait almost 2 minutes to get it again if you die.
Learning how to be effective with the attack helicopters while staying alive is very difficult.

Now as an infantry player if you die, you join back in the game with your same loadout in 5 seconds. No problem. A heli pilot that dies without warning to a railgun tank that's sitting 800m away in the enemy spawn has to play a different way, or wait almost 2 minutes for the chance to play helicopter again.

Taking out the sole attack aircraft that a team gets should be difficult and it should be rewarding for the enemy team.

Right now it's rewarding, but it's not difficult. Theres so many "cheap deaths" that can come and give an undeserved advantage to a team by destroying the enemy helicopter.

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how is this for a tradeoff:  make helos basically ineffective in terms of splash damage against infantry and increase the number of vehicles (including air) and the vehicles can go aftre each other.  that way infantry isn't getting pounded constantly by air while they are trying to fight off infantry and ground vehicles.

can also reduce effectiveness of infantry against air as well since they won't be much of a threat to the infantry if the air has to actually hit a soldier with a rocket to kill him (like with Lis's missile)

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That's not a bad idea!

Air vehicles should be battling it out with each other for air superiority first, then worry about armor.

@Psubondthe rocket pods have been made so soft in damage now that no serious pilot uses them. The miniguns are effective but not easy to use. Aiming with them is much more difficult than most weapons in the game. If you're able to stay moving and hit ground targets consistently with the miniguns (since staying still is a death sentence with lis in the game) you deserve the points

I would be happy if they removed the rocket pods from the bird and gave it a tow missile option for vehicles instead. 

Then give the jets the rocket pods back.

Yep, right now it's pretty unflyable. I sure can dodge and shoot down incoming missiles, but really can't do nothing about coming from the sides from somewhere far. It's like that woosh sound for 1 second and another second kapish, I'm back on vehicles spawn menu. And it's happening constantly now, even infantry has longer survival time now 😀. Just not worth gaming anymore. 

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@UP_LordPlumber wrote:
@PsubondI don't recall Nightbird miniguns having splash damage, yet good pilots can still murder you with ease. The same goes for Stealth helis btw, you can have some nasty farms with HMGs only

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I don’t think that’s totally accurate. I have a much better chance of surviving the miniguns then the rocket pods. I rarely survive rockets, while I have definitely survived the miniguns.

There is no way even the best pilots can farm infantry with the miniguns as effectively as they can with rocket pods. 

@RaginSam

" That's not a bad idea

Air vehicles should be battling it out with each other for air superiority first, then worry about armor."

No offence, but it's a terrible idea because if you have one side with better pilots and they take out your pilots guess what happens next...

That's right, complete non consensual action on every player in your team.

That used to happen in V Pacific maps.

On a related note, one positive about 128 conquest in a tank is that attack aircraft do not dominate tanks like they can in 64 player. There's too many threats for them to do so.

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@UP_LordPlumber wrote:
@PsubondI don't recall Nightbird miniguns having splash damage, yet good pilots can still murder you with ease. The same goes for Stealth helis btw, you can have some nasty farms with HMGs only

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If a pilot kills me with miniguns fine, they earned it.  I am taling about 30mm and rockets

get some kills by use the night bird  is easy now for me，but dice just kill cut the rocket and other  heli 。 bad things that i cant get with all heli T1 , the turning is too slow and the army is too low

@UNL1M1T3D_P0W3RAt this point if I kill lizzlie should have 2 mins penalty time for respawning. It's easier to operate rocket than helo. You can do it in cover and don't have to worry about danger around you. So, if I kill Liz, 2minutes respawn penalty, so I wouldn't get spammed by same person(s) and sending me back to spawn menu from 45 seconds flight. (I am tier 600 with nb and handling nb is at my back spine).