Came out of a Portal BF3 Hardcore game. This one was 900% much more enjoyable than normal BF2042, and 900% more teamplaye.
Came out fairly simple, in the squad two were Supports, one was Engineer, one Medic. No one in any discord we just knew our role because it was crystal clear. It been teamplaying all along. Medic would follow behind to revive and heal the team, engineer covering against tanks, Support opening the path. Anyone could find a trail of revive, medic crate and ammo crate behind & around us. When you died seeing the icon of what class were used in the squad made it easy to know which one to spawn.
This is the thing, old system make things more simple and crystal clear on what to do based on ROLE, by consequences it make the gameplay more cohesive and teamplayed. The new one altho had real good ideas, cause a more messy and unorganized gameplay. People prepare their own full recipe because they can, and make them more self-centered.
It's much less difficult to encounter group effort in all the Portal old class than default mode. Now the new one has really good point, and going deeper in the customization is a great idea. But the core of class system removed to put those COD / Battleroyal specialist is a real loss for what is supposed to be a Battlefield.
It's not surprising, this game on too many aspects show that it's not a battlefield. If we were to remove the vehicles, no one could tell they're playing battlefield. Seems the (new?) devs think vehicle is the only detail that make a BF being a BF ...
Could very be that the way i interpret the class wrong, or that i see people not using the system as it meant to be (which would mean the class system is wrong). But you can't say that i'm just subjective and your vision is objective ^^. And i really dont get neither why people quote BF4 every time like if it was the god reference. But saying that the specialists are here for teamplay can't let you say that.
Altho we are on the same page, there is a massive lack of cohesion, cooperation and so aka teamplay. But does the specialist and new class system do anything to improve that ? Did it kept the same level of teamplay as previous system ?
I agree that the specialist (at least some) provide benefit to the team. Falck and Angel reviving. And Paik and Caper doubling down as Recon. The other are much more self-centered. You see Sundance you know she has more grenade and can fly, cool. And ? Mackay can hook, cool, the dude will climb to camp from above etc ...
But the biggest problem is that by making sooo many specialists (10 !!) that can do a little everything, people consider it's enough and don't fulfil their role entirely. Taking gadget that don't complement their role or even forgeting the purpose of a role because they just see supposed cool character. They can drop an amo plates so it's enough, No, because real amo crearte stay and benefit everybody, Angel just pretty much everytime drop a few amo for himself that's all. Falk will revive and SOMETIMES pistol heal great, but wont drop a real medic crate in the middle of the group. Or drop medic crate but can't revive cause wrong specialist etc etc etc ...
It's small details, small nuances, but that in the end make a huge difference. You said yourself, previous system was more simple. This new one is so "complex" / messy that no that many people really fulfil properly a job. Making the gameplay by consequence less teamplay. So as we said at the beginning there is a lack of cohesion, given the circumstances how do you expect squad to interact between each other if they dont have internal cohesion ????
I saw your videos, same thing happen, when you are in voice with your friend there is some cohesion, otherwise teamplay is gone within the squad. You can't tell me that this new system is so great.
I'll say it again, those specialists are nothing but a supposed "cool" stuff that belong to hollywood movie or COD or BattleRoyal. And it's obvious that it's been made with this approach, hey let's make this character, and this one, and this one, annnd thise one, it will be coooool, and this outfit, and it can fly and it can .... no, sorry no. It completely diluted the notion of role.
@VRACinqueWell , i will try to respond as well as possible in the best of my capacity to let you understand how i view this and why i would claim that there is subjectivity base on certain parametres . And defining those parametres first would allow us to judge what is and what is not subjective .
First of all everyones in this so call " community " see a different BF as the " Gold standard " and because of this it will be a irreconciable community because no ones is ever happy .. Exemple : those who see Bad company 2 as the gold standard of " destruction " and BF should be all about destruction . Neglecting how some peoples only got farmed on wastedlands with no more covers anywhere and didnt found this experience " fun " ..
Second of all to determine if you are Objective or Subjective it depends on the topic .. If its a matters of " taste " then its always subjective .. If i say i prefer BF2042 because its " fun " its subjective . If you say i prefer classes system because it resonate with me its base on feelings emotions so its subjective etc.. if you follow me .. So i can be subjective and if i am i will have no problems saying it .. I really like Black and red stuff i also like blue and yellow i am not a fan of pastel color , I like the Unreal tournament franchise etc.. thats all base on taste and isnt objective ..
Thats said if i say something improove or harm teamplay then i have to justified it without neglecting counter points .. ill give you exemples
The premise or claim is " The specialist system and loadout system improove team cohesion and teamplay "
The you ask why is that ? Then i proceed to give you exemple that are logical and verifiable .. X and Y players can take X and Y weapons and X and Y gadjets and X and Y specialist to furfill a specific role whithin a squad being able to adapt to terrain types , range , and devices needed to furfill x and y goals ..etc..
Then you tell me The classes system is better because it prevent players from using x and Y type of weapons or gadjets or combinaison of the 2 . therfor could " Force " some players to play in team against their will ..
Its all depends on the premise and how you bring it .
And here is the catch ... If you pretend limiting X and Y weapons to X and Y classes is better because it " force teamplay or so call rock paper scissor "
Then the same will be true without the classes system If you take " Boris with a SMG and a Rocket launcher .. While Boris is alive if a tank come by he can react to it and start shooting at it but if the tank is to close he dosnt have the C4 the other person with a different loadout had right ?
So this so call " rock ppaper scissor " thing exist all the same depending on your loadout choices ..
If we pretend the classes system is more predictable once again unless you have a BF with Zero classes custumisation there was no 100% predictable anything ...
With specialist they are predictable .. you know or should know exactly what each specialist are capable of beside their second gadjet and weapon of choices ...
Unless a classes system had 2 fix gadjet and a single weapons you cant predict anything .. a F2000 and a Ak47 are insanely different guns .. one would shred you at CQC medium range the other wont so there was always elements of suprise ..
And in BF4 this was to the roofs because the 2 gadjet slots were custumizable so suppport without amo and medic without defib and med bag was a common thing ... beside Premade team or squads ..
But even forgeting BF4 ever existed , The same thing peoples claim dosnt exist in BF2042 does exist .. the balance between Smgs and Snipers is the same .. the variety of guns peoples use is about the same as previous BF ... the choice players make will affect their ability to react .. If you take Mckay youll be able to flank . but unable to rocket if you take meds or enable to repair if you take c5 and unable to fly like sundance and reach long distance and so on ..
Also there is a restrictive component in BF2042 you can no longer magically switch to another classes by picking it up on the ground when you pick a weapon its a weapon ...
Then complains may come about Angel " loadout drop " or Falk ability to heal and have another gadjet .. but the reality is her healing gadjet is a locked gadjet wich promote predictability .. If you see a Falk its 100% sure she heal .. If you see an Angel its 100% sure he can resuply and plate ..
As for " Purpose of the roles "
Sundance = Flank deep behind ennemy lines , crowd controle clusters + disabling vehicles or soldier Ui with pulse EMP
Mckay = Similar to planetside 2 light assault MCkay is the pure verticality soldier who can reach behind ennemy in high rise capable to suprise ennemy but also take vantage point over them ..
Boris = Hold position disturbe ennemy frontlines pushes
Irish = Fortify and disable ennemy explosive spam etc..
Thats their primary roles .. The the second gadjet is buisness as usual with the old classes system choices .. C5 trap players or vehicles close range . Rocket kill helis or tanks + vehicles etc.. Med box heal yourself and team mates . Amo box resuply yourself and team mates
But Amo box and Med boxs are weaker than Angel and Falk healing and amo because Amo box resuply rocket 1 tick every 40 seconds not sure the exact time lol but feel like eternity .. same for meds while Angel loadout box can resuply amo at full in 1 resuply with help tremendously when facing a vehicles spam ..
And so on and on ..
Not sure wich video you have watch .. some videos are full squads some video are only 1 or 2 friends some others are me alone with randoms .. And with such tiny players lobby 4 only .. it will be hard to really strategise when we have 1 person in a land vehicles while the other two are in Air buisness etc..
Let say here we are 3 with 1 random we stick in a HIND and dominate the air space what would you expect more ? While on some other match i could be in a Night bird dropping my friends here and there trying to win this game but being not more than 1/16 of the team make things difficult sometime when your team is terrible at times lol ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSAnEUD5gk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSAnEUD5gk
To finish Specialist core design have nothing to do with " COD " per say ./.. But i would say i dont like most specialist faces etc.. I dont like the corny lines .. i dont like the Amazon twitch skin purple thing .. I dont like anything like that .. But i know for a fact that the system itself is really good and might have not being bashed as much if it wasnt for those Corny one liners and silly trendy haircuts and so on and all those were faceless soldiers with full face mask on ..
This is a story that never ends. What could be a compromise if we were to have 4 classes with far greater flexibility. Just a talk from a theoretical point of view. Would it be possible so both parties would be satisfied. After all, everyone wants a good BF. I do.
