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UP_LordPlumber's avatar
UP_LordPlumber
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago

Things we DON't need in BF6

I've seen discussions regarding possible features we need in the next Battlefield game, but I think we all should take a step back and discuss things we don't need in the next game since 2042 has a lot of those.

Anything controlled by AI instead of a player simply should exist in a multiplayer FPS game. Robodog, auto-locking smart grenades, Boris turret, radar/smart missiles. We should be fighting players, not their gadgets/gimmicks. It simply is not fun and straight-up unfair to die to some AI controller BS while a player is camping in a tent somewhere.

Vehicles loaded with guns, grenade launchers, autocannons, and other types of explosives. This idea has failed tremendously. There is a reason why some vehicles are insanely popular while others are utterly useless. It's because spreading the power of a vehicle across multiple players is stupid. BF has never been a game about teamwork. 99% of it is solo players trying to survive in the meat grinder. Case in point - most powerful vehicles in BF2042 are generally high mobility vehicles with most of their powers at the hands of a driver/pilot. Littlebird, Stealth helis, RAM TOR, and Wildcat.

Those vehicles are not reliant on other players. They're self-sufficient to be operated by 1, sometimes 2 players, unlike other vehicles that require 3 or more potatoes to be operational. 

Specialists and freedom of weapons/gadgets.  Dice learned the hard way. Specialists instead of classes, freedom of weapons and gadgets, and the idea of "Playing as someone special instead of a faceless nobody" have failed. I don't think anyone really cares about specialists, their stories, backgrounds, identities, etc.  Most of them are obnoxious and stupid stereotypes that annoy us more than anything.

Weapons and gadgets must be restricted. It has worked for every other Battlefield game before, and it should not change. It brings balance and purpose to each class without crumbling the fundamental idea of each class serving a specific purpose.

If you want to have characters and sell skins for them, just copy-paste COD. I mean, you were on the right track with BF5 and Elite characters. It's the same thing as COD Operators.

Too much verticality. It sounds cool on paper. Skyscrapers, objectives hundreds of meters on top of a rocket assemble facility. In reality, it only provides more incentive for people to camp instead of playing the objectives. Hourglass rework proves this point. There was too much focus on the top of the skyscrapers, often bringing the main focus on capturing the skyscraper rather than other objectives. Exactly what is happening on Kaleidoscope.

We used to have urban maps with minimal verticality that worked insanely well. Seine Crossing, Dawn Breaker, Strike at Karkand, all BF3 Aftermath maps.  Next game maps should slow things down in terms of scale, and focus more on the ground level.

What are your thoughts and ideas?

17 Replies

  • UP_LordPlumber's avatar
    UP_LordPlumber
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @RaginSamI think ADS speed, ADS movement speed, and other core gameplay mechanics shouldn't be affected by what class or specialist you play as.

    Things such as your health pool (Hello armor plates), how much damage you deal/receive, how fast you ADS, and how fast you move while ADS. These core mechanics must be the same for everyone.

    Even the current engineer's ADS accuracy bonus while crouching bugs the hell out of me.

    Those attributes must be tied to a weapon class, not a character that you play.

    Want fast ADS and move speed weapon? SMGs and PDWs
    Want a high volume of fire at a cost of mobility? LMGs
    Want something in the middle? ARs

    Having specific characters with variable core gameplay stats does one very annoying thing - messing up your muscle memory. If you have a lot of experience in gunfights, a single ballerina macay can jump out of a corner at Mach 1 while dancing circles around you.

    As for having specialists in the future, I think it depends on how Dice designs their maps. A well-designed map needs no special treatment. Bad Company 2 sends its regards. We only had crouching and jumping. No vaulting, no going prone, no any kind of movement-altering mechanics whatsoever. Yet the gameplay flow in that game was awesome, and by no means slow or stale.

    My point is - a well-designed map will entertain you by itself, no grappling hook is required.

  • RaginSam's avatar
    RaginSam
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago
    @UP_LordPlumber I mostly agree with you on all that.

    Different weapon handling abilities for different classes is really annoying. I don't like that either. It should be tied to the weapon rather then the class.

    I loved Bad Company 2 when it was out. Then BF3 came along, and I adored that. Going back and playing them though... it's fun, and I still enjoy those games, but games have evolved since then. I freaking love the movement in 2042. I love sliding and jumping around, figuring out new ways to traverse a map. For me, it adds quite a bit of depth for trying to master movement. It makes moving a map interesting in itself.

    Good map design is essential, but so is good movement mechanics, for me at least.
  • I don't want the 'chore' playstyles. Especially when DICE does balancing around the expectation players will login to do virtual chores.

    Ammo distribution and anti-air are the biggest offenders here.

    Nobody is making highlight reels of themselves dropping ammo boxes.  Nobody is making highlight reels of their FXM kills.

    Ammo distribution and anti-air are key playstyles, but it seems DICE never stopped and asked "Is this fun?  With all of our creativity - is this the most fun solution?"

  • I don't want fake gun stats that are entirely just text associated with the gun. It got even worse when the mag sizes were wrong multiple times because the gun stats have nothing to do with the actual guns, even though both of those are probably just some jsons that should be parseable at any time.

    Give me the RPM. Give me a damage falloff graph. Even DICE's tweets have damage falloff graphs! Give me some spread indicators. Give me the bullet velocity and gravity. I don't care if subsonic sniper ammo ammo flies at 400m/s and regular SMG ammo at 200m/s.
  • kregora's avatar
    kregora
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @UP_LordPlumber  Before I add my comments I like to state, that I assume, that BF6 will be set in the near future or after BF2042 


    Anything controlled by AII

    I do believe AI supported gadgets are okay, when there is a clear definition about how it works, and what it does.

    BF2042 mostly has "what it does" gadgets. See Irish' APS. It used to annihilate "any explosive" crossing its area of control. I still don't understand what the common denominator for Rockets, Missiles, Mortar Shells, Grenade launcher shells are, and why Smoke Grenades and EMP Grenades are ignored at the same time, and why a shot down explosive just vanishes and don't explode. Blasco' infiltration device is no difference.

    Still spotting grenades and T-UGS are part of BF narrative for quite some time, and are also ai controlled gadgets.


    Vehicles loaded with guns, grenade launchers, autocannons, and other types of explosives.

    I actually like the idea, to make vehicles to squad vehicles. If the viability as a single operator vehicle would be much lower than it is. I think more along the lines of strict separation of driving and offensive capabilities, and real passenger seats for infantry.


    Specialists and freedom of weapons/gadgets.

    The Specialists are the best example for a "faceless nobody". Every single BFV soldier had a more special personality than any of the BF2042 jokers.Sure you couldn't read about their background on an official website, because the player mattered, not the ideas of a developer forced upon the players.

    Gadget restrictions are okay, if they return to the BF4 method, where you were able to choose two gadgets and a perk, to assemble you personal specialist, without a "free class gadget".

    Also gadgets and grenades should not autorefresh. And of course, as I stated earlier, it needs to be defined how they work, and what they do.

    I still like the idea to completely drop the weapon restrictions, it is difficult enough to get some balance in the weapons, there is no need to translate theses issues to classes at the same time. But at the same time, the plus system has to go. If DICE wanted more versatility to their weapon pool, they either should allow a second main weapon, in exchange for a gadget maybe, or increase the number of sidearm options. 


    Too much verticality.


    I disagree. I believe Dawnbreaker offers as much if not more verticality than Hourglass for example. In my opinion we need a lot more verticality. The difference with BF2042 maps is, that most are designed like soup plates, either normal or upside down, and more or less cover and concealment less objectives. So people camp the rim of the plate, and pick off the people that actually try to win the game.  Look at Dawnbreaker where there were underground tunnels or build complexes and parking decks between control points, or control points connected by roads that were separated by tall buildings between them.

    What in my opinion should go is forced M&K/Controller crossplay. Crossplatform play should be optional, not normal. "Same game, same rules!"

    Ingame communication is key, with the emphasis on Squad  and/or Team communication, not Party communication. If we want to talk to our friends while gaming we already do it via one of different available voip platforms anyway in parallel to ingame communication.

    If the next game should be a military shooter, provide military camoflage. Don't go the way to try to artificially increase the opponent visibility, especially not by some friday night disco night skins as the only option. 


     
     

  • UP_LordPlumber's avatar
    UP_LordPlumber
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago
    @RaginSamOh absolutely. A fluid movement is a must have in any modern game.

    But they should keep it grounded in terms of gadgets that allow some over the top crazy movement options. When Sundance jumps off a 10ft ledge and can glide across half of the map, that is over the top.

    Having things such as spring, tactical sprint, vaulting, slide cancelling etc. is absolutely fine and adds a good layer of skill into the mix without making the game way too arcady. I'm too guilty of slide cancelling like it's an addiction
  • RaginSam's avatar
    RaginSam
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @UP_LordPlumber wrote:
    @RaginSamOh absolutely. A fluid movement is a must have in any modern game.

    But they should keep it grounded in terms of gadgets that allow some over the top crazy movement options. When Sundance jumps off a 10ft ledge and can glide across half of the map, that is over the top.

    Having things such as spring, tactical sprint, vaulting, slide cancelling etc. is absolutely fine and adds a good layer of skill into the mix without making the game way too arcady. I'm too guilty of slide cancelling like it's an addiction

    100%

    The wing-suit has got to go! The grapple hook is fun and all, but doesn't really fit in BF either.

    I love Tactical sprinting everywhere and slide cancelling as well! You can get some cool momentum going at times. I think when people have an issue with it, it's because something is up with the networking that makes it look like some players are speed hacking. Things like the VERY JANKY vaulting system we have contributes to that. When vault something, it's measuring how far you are from it, if you're close enough to vault it, you then teleport to that object. Also, how characters interact with geometry. No one believes me, but there is WAY too much going on with collisions in this game. Even ammo boxes mess with how flat the ground is. It all adds up to odd looking movement that's very unpredictable to track. Then there's the issue while aiming and every leaf on the ground is bumping you up a couple of pixels. Not everything needs a freaking collision box Dice!

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