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Beshinei's avatar
Beshinei
Rising Rookie
1 day ago

Escalation changes is bad

The best point of escalation was a big amount of vehicles, and option for anyone to try heli or jet.
With vehicles spawn timer adjustments, its a 8 minut meat grinder, and a single transport heli domination.
Then a single IFV enters the field.
With the usual score at a moment of 1:2. It's HALF TIME of the match!
First attack heli at 12 minutes, some matches are already finished at this point.
Second attack heli at 16 minutes. In most cases, it's a few minutes before the match finishes. You can finally take a heli and fly 500 meters to see a win/defeat screen. Really? Peak gameplay.

For the time attack heli enters the fight all campy places are already sorted and filled with TOW IFVs and guided munition tanks. That leads to fun gameplay of trying to predict how many tows are flying towards you at the moment. Usually it's roughly 4. Most helicopter pilots are unable to attack effectively while avoiding that spam of infinite missiles. And I'm ignoring 2 AA, since they still are more annoying than dangerous (unless you are too close) for a steady pilot.

That also nullifies usefullness of "stealth" jets, since they can or dogfight, or make a desperate attempt to do something with ground bombs. In both cases usual result is a crash or death from multiple rockets.
Therefore, most of the time jet is untouched or used as a taxi to the camping spot.

Combining with the overwhelming practice of roof camping in most maps (and lack of destruction for those roofs), the only viable option is usable only if your team already dominates the land.

I see a few possible ways to resolve this issue (or their combinations):
1. Remove guided munitions from tanks or massively decrease their guidance range (to 200-300 meters or even lower)
It's the only viable long-range option for tanks, because all other munitions have a massive drop-off with range.
Since that dropoff is clearly a gameplay based design choice, guided munitions should follow it too, not be the literal silver bullet. Also expected usecase for that munition (tank duel) devolves into skilless point and follow game. Due to range and other munition problems, your enemy will behave the same, no innovations required.

2. Increase replenishment time for tank guided munitions. Or decrease its capacity.
Tanks must visit resupply stations regularly to be effective. This will prevent massive longtime camping and create more opportunities to attack. And promote the usage of engineer's supply box (it's vulnerable, thus counterable).

3. Shuffle spawn timers. Aviation a bit earlier (choppers and first AA around 5 min, jets 1-2 minutes later), most IFVs and tanks move later, so it will be like 1-2 new heavy armor every 2 minutes.
Second AA should be added with a second attack chopper or a second pair of jets.
Jets must be bundled together, a stealth jet desperately needs target to shoot, its not designed nor usable against ground. (Unless target is designated, then it is somewhat applicable, but usually it's not the case)

4. The biggest one.
Reverse the escalation pace. Instead of limiting options by decreasing the playable area, increase it instead. Start with only 3 middle flags. Small map, no or almost no vehicles - best comfort for infantry combat. The team that scores points opens the flag closer to the losing team's HQ.
Since it closer to HQ, the losing team now has a natural benefit, allowing for a comeback tactical.
The longer the game, the more the map is open, therefore the more opportunities for sneaky and risky tactics. That must disperse heavy armor more evenly across the map, and creating more smaller scale vehicles combat, where skill is compared, not the amount of guns.
> As a new gamemode? Test first as LTM?
>> The only problem I see is the Golf flag on Sobek city, but it's a problem anyway, since the bf6 launch.


P.S. Why tank's missile interceptor blocks heli's gunner shots? It is practically a shield against all tank threats. A single repairman will nullify a few exceptions (APFSDS).
The problem will become bigger the moment IFV obtains the same "shield".

P.S.S. heli lacks raw damage output to one-strafe any heavy armour. Even presumably less armoured AA. This puts heli in a giant disadvantage, and demotes it into anti infantry role. (Both easier and much more effective kill-wise)

2 Replies

  • Beshinei's avatar
    Beshinei
    Rising Rookie
    1 day ago

    IFV needs a guided munition alternative (It's too versatile now). Laser designation is not as universal (since the gunner cannot designate a point in space to allow demolition, unlike snipers' designators) and can be countered by smokes. Dumbs are just bad in all scenarios — no angle of attack, low damage, almost no splash, ridiculously low demolition power.

    As for choppers: due to low mobility of these helis , it's almost impossible to do 2 row attacks in quick succession - almost guaranteed to be killed on turn. Due to the pods dispersion its hard to land them precisely (loking on target makes you point down that forces you to obtain speed that makes aiming much harder and reduces time window to react and adjust).
    > Opinion may be biased due to my primary experience with heavy pods. Used exclusively for bigger splash and 2 hit splash kills of infantry. Cannot use aim guided - too big speed forces my aim point to be past the target the moment of hit - therefore miss. Light pods are nice, but require more accuracy than I have (or less latency).
    > I'm not using the "heavy warheads" upgrade, since survivability is much more required.

    It's okay if chopper cannot solo the tank in one strafe. (with gunner included)
    It's not okay that on the second strafe heli is either dead, or the tank is already fully recovered (heavy plating + self-repair + 3rd stage of combat engineer works most times for me as a tank driver).
    Due to the limit of a single reload, imho, the heli needs to be able to solo tank in 2 strafes without a gunner (assuming 80-90% accuracy).

    Gunners laser guided missile (that should be also an AIM) and gun can offset the situation a lot. thats true and thats okay.

    It's seems to be possible to one strafe the tank. (Maybe tank was without reinforce plating) Hit with aim guided from heli, laser guided from gunner, then 3-4 heavy pods, and gunner may have enough time to do other damage. However, hitting aim guided and 3-4 heavy pods is not reachable for me most of times. Due to lack of time for left/right adjustment to compenstate the respective offsets. And aim guided for helis is much more demanding than the same for tanks.

  • The guided munitions was just a bad idea, and should be removed.  The attack helo needs to do a bit less damage with the spampods as well, because as soon as you get a person just a touch skilled, they wreck all ground vehicles.

    We need to get back to a game that focuses more on teamwork than one man army designs.  The tanks can do it all, the helos... well, they're probably supposed to be strong but they gave every Engi 5 rockets to spam and then made the SMG completely broken so everyone is an engi.  Jets... Well, you know, they exist.

    It is a problem all across the board.  Honestly, I think it's pretty close to balanced, so good on Dice for not completely messing the vehicles up.  More space to fly, make jets suck less, and just do some numbers work.  And get rid of guided munitions on ground vehicles (minus AA).

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