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AUTh0rity's avatar
AUTh0rity
New Rookie
12 years ago

Re: Request for examples of player issues with netcode.

I don't know why you *need* that information.

I can't imagine that the developers at DICE have no clue why these issues happen, because they happen since Battlefield 3.

It is also to be expected when a game has client side hitreg (your client tells the server what/whom you hit and how much damage that hit inflicted #faceplam), and allows players with a ping higher than 100ms on it's the servers (matchmaking not taking region/ping into account?).

This is just predetermine to fail and explode in your face.

Another element that contributes to the horrible hitreg is the server tick rate (thats how often the server sends data to the client - updating the client with what is going on with all the stuff around him).

The Tick Rate is at a very low "30".

In layman's terms, you are playing at "30 FPS". Because thats how often your client gets and update from the server!

What happens between those updates is interpolated by the engine (networksmoothing factor comes into play here) - and this directly ties into the issues where:

  • you die before you see someone shoot
  • you die before you see the player come around the corner
  • you die before you see the player exit the ladder
  • you get killed by a player whom you still see performing the knife-animation
  • you see a player shoot ONCE while he actually emptied half his mag
  • missile hits your helicopter even though the warning tone did not change yet
  • mine explodes before the RPG actually hits it
  • etc.

What you see (animation) and what is actually happening, is most of the time de-sync'ed or incomplete!

The entire netcode and hitreg is broken in it's coredesign. Because DICEA prioritices a networked water simulation (great PR feature) and a million Michael Bay explosions over a working hitreg. Otherwise why is the Hitreg worse than in BF3?

So BF3 and 4 are first person shooters whic don't get the most critical aspect of that genre right - the shooting.

And I can't see DICE really fix the issue, as this would mean to pretty much swap out the client side hitreg and go serverside (again) and increase the Tick Rate to at least "60" - which the GSP will simply not be able to handle and EA will not profide the manpower/budget for post release.

 

How did DICE honestly plan to get BF4 big in E-Sports, when they knew they designed it with a tick rate of 30 and such a broken, client-side hitreg?

7 Replies

  • veeTekk's avatar
    veeTekk
    12 years ago
    @AUTh0rity wrote:

     In layman's terms, you are playing at "30 FPS". Because thats how often your client gets and update from the server!

    30 Hz, no way!. You have some internal information to back it up? With server tick beeing 33.333ms (30 Hz), most of these "die with one shot" will never happen because with even 1000 RPM weapon server can send out multiple updates before sending out final death event (time to kill 240ms), if we add additional time for another player to react and start shooting (human optical reaction time is over 150ms, and network smoothing beeing 0%). Based on this information beeing dead before seeing another player, server must be running lower than 200ms ticks -> 5Hz.

  • AUTh0rity's avatar
    AUTh0rity
    New Rookie
    12 years ago

    BF3 has been decompiled - BF4 as well. BF3 even had serverfiles leaked many times.

    Won't say more here on ea.com. Use google, and you find the sources. 😉

    What you have forgotten in your calculation is the latency/ping.

    Player 1 (50ms) <-> Server (internal delay + sending out updates only 30 times/sec) <-> Player 2 (more than 100ms)

    You see the hitreg freak out the most when players with ping >100ms are on the server. And the problem is that the hitreg WORKS IN THEIR FAVOUR!

    Instead of in the favour of those players who have a decent connection -> low ping/latency.

    Now the tick-rate is not the root cause nor the "magic solution" to BF4's hitreg issue, it is just one part of the whole problem.

    When you look at other games like CS : Source that are played in E-Sport, you can set the tick rate serverside. Usually they use "100" for competitive play/matches/tournaments.

    Also possible is "66" and the lowest is "33" (IIRC).

    E-sport is about milliseconds - thats why 120Hz displays with very low latency are used there too. (same applies to input controls)

    Now you play at 120FPS, on a 120Hz display, but your gameclient sends and receives data only 30 times per second.

    How exactly should this game become a / THE big player in e-sport? Like zh1nt0 said on twitter?

    But ordinary players notice that too - With next gen, where console players finally get true 60FPS many more players will - everything looks more fluid with 60fps than with 30fps (thanks to interpolation of data received from the server for everything thats going on there), but your gameclient still only receives and sends data 30 times per second.

    Which means that the game "looks" smoother, but still does not "respond" faster because the data-updates did not increase.

    I'd really like every MP FPS to have a "Net_Graph" like CS has to identify network/connection problems.

    From CS : S description:

    "A higher tickrate increases the simulation precision, but also requires more CPU power and available bandwidth on both server and client."

    And thats why DICEA won't increase it for BFx.

    GSPs won't like it. And you can mostlikely forgett 720p60 + 64players on next get as well.

    I'd very much prefer no fancy water simulation and have a working, fast, spot on hitreg instead.

     

  • J1M_13's avatar
    J1M_13
    Rising Rookie
    12 years ago

    auth0rity has said everything I was going to say.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    12 years ago

    ^^^ What auth0rity said.

    You can look at all the youtube videos all you want EA, but it means nothing.

    Read what this guy said. Take it in. Understand the words. Understand the implications.

    Then fix this. Properly.

    You messed up BF3 and we all put up with it, just. Don't let BF4 idle in this state whilst prancing around the issue.

  • AntiFox08's avatar
    AntiFox08
    12 years ago

    I don't have a video, but I do have some stories of what happened to me, and each time, I had my network smoothing bar to 0% and had under 100 ping every time, though the specific ping ranged anywhere from 50-90. 

    One instance, I was using the m249 and saw a player not even 10 yds. away, so I aimed and fired. I had about 4-5 hitmarkers, but he killed me with his MP412 Rex while bunny hopping, and he still had 100% health, despite my client clearly showing hitmarkers against him, and there was no medkit in sight.

    On Operation Locker, I saw a player go prone in the snow, so I aimed and shot him in the head about 5x and had no reaction. I shot him almost 10 more times, then I simply knifed him, but nothing showed up in the kill feed about it.

    Another time, I had the m249 and aimed and unloaded on a guy that was about 10 yds. away and didn't get a single hitmarker on him.

    Here's one that worked in my favor. I saw someone sniping near a collapsed house, and I ran towards him at almost a front-left angle, but far enough to the left for him to not notice. He must've been about 50 yds. away, and as I made it halfway to him, I started getting shot in the back by someone with a Type 88. I kept sprinting to the sniper, not strafing or anything, knifed him, turned around to face the support player shooting me, then finally died.

    There have also been a few times where I had been shot, ran behind cover, then the red arrow on my screen went nuts and I died, with my killer way off in the distance (making it appear as though I had been shot through an entire building).

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