How Realistic is F122? (According to an F1 Engineer)
Interesting video:
Forum Discussion
48 Replies
- @mariohomoh Ive driven a car in a actual sim once and apart from the huge screen and the motion its not that different to rFactor2 or iRacing. Id say closer to rF2 as the physics are more realistic than iRacing. And we specifiically asked if there were any assists or anything but it was possible to do it without any of these.
And yes, ofc its true that iRacing nowadays is a lot different to the first days and the game is much more demanding on specs etc. The FFB tho hasnt really changed in at least the last 6-7 years. You get miles better feedback than F1 22 and yet its thousand times worse than for example Asetto Corsa. Feedback wise this is how i want the F1 game to be. If thats the case tho you can also argue that no pad player can ever drive against wheel anymore as the feedback would make the wheel way too good compared to pad. but then also i think thats just fair and fine as its still a racing game and i havent seen someone drive a car IRL with a stick. so i think proper wheel support is definitely needed in this game.
Regarding the W13: I didnt mean to mislead, obviously they did not code it for the developer, but as you already pointed out they offered a lot of data and collaborated while making the car. And the car feels a lot different to the previous iracing F1 car, although that one is very realistic as well.
About the gears: nobody in real life goes flat out in 2nd gear on every corner where you use it, but it can be possible, while in F1 22 flat in third is already impossible in many instances. But also this has been an issue for so many years in the f1 games and i have no clue why codemasters still goes this route. And every year its the same. First it feels like lower gears are back but after a month it turns out its even higher gears than the previous year. Its weird and silly.
@mariohomoh wrote:@Wollcott did you get to drive a sim in a factory or in the team's entourage? This is off topic, but if that's the case I'd love to hear more about it and I'm most definitely not alone in that! Though there are a bunch of users who casually play the game, there's a good number of legit petrol heads here that will always perk their ears up to hear such stories 👌
I'd love to hear that too.
And guys, don't get me wrong - the discussion is great - but it sounds like you are expecting something that was never intended for this F1 game series - as far as I think of the game in those years playing it. It's like judging a fish by its abiity of climbing trees. To implement this in such level of finesse the game could never be released yearly.
And to say that TC medium players have no part in the discussion sounds arrogant to me. Firstly 'cause splits the players into categories where some are relevant and some aren't. Second because those are the guys who feel the most this misbalance in traction - though they don't necessarily know what's going on and why. So, if it's hard for us, for them it's almost impossible - to the point where they could lose interest in learning and turning assists off and ultimately dropping the game.
@dancrodriguesVast majority play the game using a pad. So game should be optimised for pad as well as wheel. Without those on pad. The game wouldn’t be financially viable
afterall it’s advertised and sold as a game.
- @dancrodrigues No , not at all do i want to put people in categories, but in this specific topic, about realism and comparing to real life it does not make sense to listen to people that play with TC as obviously there is no common ground to compare. Its nothing against someone using it. But it doesnt make sense comparing the handling/traction etc. from a traction control played game to a real life car without that assist. Same thing about ABS. the only real comparison which makes sense and brings everybody on the same level is 0 assists in game, as there as 0 assists IRL (ok power steering maybe)
But about the first part:
What bugs me the most is that F1 cars in actual simulators are MUCH easier to drive than the F1 game. I dont get the intention behind this. Why is it easier to dirve an F1 car on iRacing than the offical F1 game? if anything that makes people lose interest even more or compensate it by turning on assists.
Thats why 2020 was so good. and as far as i know it was the only F1 game where developers had actual discussions and meetings with real life F1 drivers. - @ScarDuck14 100%. there is no point in optimizing this game for a wheel and not pad. right now its still optimized for a pad, even if its not as OP as last year and previous versions.
BUT that is no reason to not include full potential FFB for a wheel. And if at the end of the day pacegaps are too big then so be it, let pad players drive pad leagues and wheel players wheel leagues. i just dont see any reason why they to this day have not integrated actual wheel support.
Take AC as an exmaple: its obviously optimized fully to a wheel as its a real racing game and the FFB is incredible well and accurate. Yet, a pad player can still almost reach wheel pace and the support for pad is very good too. a member of our league started playing ACC on a pad and he couldnt believe that his controller was able to give so detailed feedback on everything. So, it is possible to fully support wheels and still optimize for a pad. - @dancrodrigues oh and about the sim i replied above this post already
- @Wollcott I’ll be honest with you. Nice to see you’ve chilled out abit👍
And can you attest that you were driving a sim in a non-exhibition context specced to realistic settings? Bear in mind that in a exhibition or museum, the guy in the simracing booth is not a race or simulator engineer, that parameters for tyre grip are made on an software engine level, and simulators on booth, however fancy, are not decommissioned real F1 sims but rigs built in partnership with consumer grade brands like Fanatec and Thrustmaster. Ferrari for instance has a long, long time partnership with Thrustmaster and those booths are built by them with the general public in mind.
Sorry for going over this point again. It’s just that from your reply it wasn’t clear if you got into a real F1 sim, or on an exhibition “F1 sim”.
Back to iRacing, I’m not talking about PC specs to run the game. I’m referring to game engine and software parameters for handling and physics. On this one we’re going to have a hard disagreement, mate, as even FFB ultimately changes as a result of new tyre models or category updates (GT3, LMP, etc), and these get reworked frequently. Even 2023 Season 1 introduced significant BoP changes for the GT3 cars and they veritably change how a car handles.
Again, I don’t see how alluding to iRacing being released in 2008 has any bearing on this debate.
Now back to the torque and gear ratio, sorry for the crude paint intervention:
If anyone here have any trouble reading the chart, I’ll be happy to break it down. But hopefully anyone can see the shortshifting and the frequent throttle modulation in gears as high as 5th?
Anyway there was a dedicated section in Ultra’s video all about how off the mark the gear ratios are. Isn’t that exactly their addressing of torque and traction issues of F1 22? Gear ratios are precisely that, all about torque delivery.
@Wollcott wrote:
But about the first part:
What bugs me the most is that F1 cars in actual simulators are MUCH easier to drive than the F1 game. I dont get the intention behind this. Why is it easier to dirve an F1 car on iRacing than the offical F1 game? if anything that makes people lose interest even more or compensate it by turning on assists.
Thats why 2020 was so good. and as far as i know it was the only F1 game where developers had actual discussions and meetings with real life F1 drivers.There's no intention, mate. I think it's due to having to release yearly and, at the same time, bring something new and engagin to a wide range of players, from casuals to petrol heads every single year.
They surely don't have enough time to code from scratch every year so they may add something here, another thing there and anyone who has some experince in coding knows that is terrible. Imagine small regs changes every year, plus adding story mode, then supercars to grow the player base and make more money... I have my reservations too on their work and in some bugs but I think they do great with their timescale - here in Brasil we say that the "blanket is too small" meaning one can't cover it all.
@Wollcott wrote:
@Blackbird90
Yea and after watdching the video i think theres one massive flaw in their comparison. And that is the traction part.
...
Alex and the other guy probably forgot that dimension when making this videoWe'd have to ask Alex to be certain but personally I'd be astonished he he did 'forget'. Rather I suspect it's so obvious that the gears used to drive optimally aren't the same that there was no point trying to do an equivalent comparison in this regard. Instead they focused on how the end result of driving the fastest lap possible compared, which doesn't seem unreasonable.
