MaddenUniversity Hey man, thanks for your feedback! If this were to actually be implemented in the exact way I proposed, it definitely could take some time to rework muscle memory. I still often use the O/B button to switch instead of the stick because of how long it's been a habit for me. So yeah, it would certainly feel uncomfortable at first, but I think the upside might make it worth trying. The good news is though, the thumb is primarily what's working the D-Pad & LS on that left side, still leaving the index finger (or even middle finger if you're skilled like that) to work that L2/LT to make the proper inputs. Also, if you were to ulitmately to feel uncomfortable using it, since it would be tied to L2/LT, you could always opt out and stick to your normal, single button inputs for switches and swats and whatnot. So again, not that it wouldn't take getting used to it, but I don't think it's an impossible thing for most of us to learn. What do you think?
Community ManagerMaddenUniversity That was the first thing I thought about. Muscle memory.
GVRH If we take into consideration the games we play - Sports/MMO/RPG/Mobile - things get really confusing once you swap over to another game.
So, thinking not just as the player, but also from my side, would this hinder more controls or help swap back and forth if the mapping and condition settings were what we wanted?
I play a few rounds of BF, then go to Madden, then swap to something like Skyrim (first one that came to mind), and then back to Madden later. Where does that land me on not getting aggro because i should have landed that toss but ended up in a fumble.
Thanks for the replies EA_Shepard and GVRH
Yeah... I'm an old man. That last thing I want to have to do is think about what my fingers are doing as I play, so I use my first 100 games every year to 'train' my fingers to new techniques - but only after they've been in the game long enough to justify learning a new mechanic.
I still haven't adopted the Switch Stick... I don't like having my fingers off the icon buttons that long, so I still switch primarily with O/B. I have started integrating a D-Pad switch and I like it much more than switching with the R-Stick. The time it takes to register which player and get my thumb back to the stick in the proper position feel more natural, BUT, I have noticed a slight slowdown when I'm chasing a receiver across the field as I'm moving the stick from neutral to a full speed run.
Back in 2007, I wrote a paper about how QB Vision was a bad addition... In it I identified two ways to hold the controller. One where the index finger works both the shoulder bumpers and the triggers, another where both the middle and index fingers operated the bumbers and triggers independently.
Would one of these grips be necessary to play using the 'enhanced' swat mechanic?
Later
MaddenUniversity Yeah man, I'm getting up there too and I totally agree with you. I don't play competitively anymore, so the incentive to learn new mechanics this is definitely low priority for me. I still often use O/B to switch as well because that's what we've been doing in Madden for the last couple decades and that's a muscle memory habit pretty hard to kick. It's not that I'm not willing to use Switch Stick, but it's not where my mind first goes in that situation tbh.
I remember QB vision and I literally don't know anyone that liked that. With QB vision, that right hand (specifically the thumb) was asked to do too much with that specific mechanic. Having to adjust vision and then transition the thumb over to a button to make a throw wound up being too conflicting and negatively impacted the timing of throws. Decent idea, just not one that could be well incorporated.
In terms of how you would hold the controller, first off, anyone capable of using both index and middle fingers to execute inputs is god tier talented imo, lol....I literally cannot do that. But with this specific mechanic, and how it relates to holding the controller ultimately, I don't think how you hold the controller would be severely impacted. Essentially you'd wanna hold it just like you were playing COD almost, with that left index consistently hovering that left trigger while your right hand does most of the dirty work, constantly trasitioning between the RS and buttons while that right index opperates the right trigger for speed control. With this mechanic and how the controller layout already is though, I don't see how we hold the controllers being severely imapacted. I just don't think it'd really change how we're already holding it. But without trying it, we may never know either. EA would have to tinker with it and have it playtested.
Community ManagerI may be getting older, but I tried to play some SNES the other day, and it was rough. Our brains, over the last 30 years, have been wired to hit more buttons. The more advanced the games get, the more advanced the controls get, so when you swap from one game to another, you have to rely on muscle memory.
Madden NFL on SNES - pressing B to hike, using the D-Pad to move, and A/B/Y for audible selections
The real, only true muscle memory you ever need to know - ⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️BA Start
EA_Shepard Is that the old Konami code?!
EA_Shepard Yeah absolutely things can get confusing when you bounce between games and whatnot. I have to admit that I literally have this problem all the time. Especially if it's been awhile since playing a different game like Skyrim, I often have to refer back to the controls of different games to get refamilarized with them. I do eventually settle back in, but like riding a bike I guess, it can be uncomfortable at first. You do present a very interesting question though. I don't know if I have a great answer, but there are a couple of points I wanna touch on concerning the question:
Regardless of those two points, I do still feel a lot of it I just going to come down to player adaptability and the willingness to put in the time and work to make the use of the newer advanced mechnics as you would have to practice anything else. We saw this with both Switch Stick and Free Form Passing, that although it made a lot of people angry, the pros and people who really want to play the game at an advanced level put in that time and effort and are better players because of it. From a development aspect, I also understand that it could take some time to code it in and tinker with it to get it working optimally, and that's not always fun from that side of things either, but I do feel it has the potential to make the game better to an extent that it could prove well worth it.
Anyway, idk if I touched on your question in the way I needed to, but that is just some additional thoughts as I contemplate it more in depth. Either way, talking through it has definitely been hepful and productive!
GVRH
Regarding the advanced controls... I think the real beauty of Madden is that anyone can jump in and play at their own level... I don't mean Rookie, Pro, All-Pro or All-Madden; I mean the level of control they CHOOSE to exert over what happens on the field.
Take myself... I User control as much as I can. I create custom playbooks, reorder depth charts, call the formations, set, plays, protection, hot-routes/adjustments, snap count, movement of the QB, throw with speed vs arc, lead my passes, switch to receivers, and user catch based on where the defender is.
Take a new player... He has every thing I just mentioned at his fingertips, but merely picks plays and snaps the ball.
We are both CHOOSING how we interact with the game... In the event that we meet, I like my chances; but neither my 30+ years of experience playing Madden nor my hardline approach to the game guarantee victory.
That said, there are a bunch of overlapping buttons with football acts that are in direct opposition... The Run After Catch (RAC) button is the same as the Dive button. No reason for that button to be the same. Same with the Possession Catch button and the Stiff Arm button.
On Defense, the Play Receiver button becomes the Conservative Tackle button - which makes sense, but the SWAT button becomes the Dive Button, where they mix the safe option with the dangerous option and the action you get depends on exact instant you press the button.
The Swat should be at the same button as the Strip Tackle button as they both control moving an a defenders hand toward the ball.
MaddenUniversity Hey man, I completely agree with you, and as I stated above, I think that's something Madden has done very well with allowing players to CHOOSE how they play. They don't necessarily have to use advanced controls, or play on All-Madden, or Rookie, if they don't want too, and the more they've given us the ability to customize everything, the better it's been for the game and the players.
I also really like the point you make about overlapping within Madden, because it's not just a 2K problem, it exists within Madden too, and you're correct that the simple timing of an input can really screw you over if you're not careful because of how the buttons are assigned. In saying that, I think it really makes a good case for button remapping if they could, and were willing to ever include it, as it would only further allow players to choose how they play.
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