Why Can't We Lie Sometimes?

Agreed. Even my paragon arse would have turned around and blown that base to hell and back once the angara were safe. Even the option to go back and do it later.

I wannamkill those torturing sadistic *. They are wose than the reapers.

P.S. theres also a bunch of Kett tech we should have been able to blow up instead of just turning it off. Turning it off is lame, the Kett are just gonna come back and press the same button we did tomturn it back on again.

@Nykara360

"...Even the option to go back and do it later..."

Lol, at the first part of your answer.  Clearly uh, you're not a fan of the Kett, lol.

But yes, this too.  Why didn't we go back right away and crush the Kett.  You almost have to wonder why you leave in the first place.  I mean sure they had reinforcements but uh, you wiped out a base.  You can't kill the reinforcements too?

I mean you can't because I tried.  I'm a fool but I once fought seemingly forever instead of evacuating.  The infinite people thing is very questionable at times haha.  I understand why they do it, still kind of sucks.

But there are other times where I feel like my dude would have lied but the Moshae rescue would have been the biggest one even if it would have made her distrustful of me.  Then I'd have to explain how I don't see the Kett as people so I don't care.

I even would have been okay with that decisions screwing me over later on.  Like in a situation later on where I could have bargained a good outcome with the Kett, they know I'm not to be trusted so it isn't an option.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

@Nykara360

"...Even the option to go back and do it later..."

Lol, at the first part of your answer.  Clearly uh, you're not a fan of the Kett, lol.

But yes, this too.  Why didn't we go back right away and crush the Kett.  You almost have to wonder why you leave in the first place.  I mean sure they had reinforcements but uh, you wiped out a base.  You can't kill the reinforcements too?

I mean you can't because I tried.  I'm a fool but I once fought seemingly forever instead of evacuating.  The infinite people thing is very questionable at times haha.  I understand why they do it, still kind of sucks.

But there are other times where I feel like my dude would have lied but the Moshae rescue would have been the biggest one even if it would have made her distrustful of me.  Then I'd have to explain how I don't see the Kett as people so I don't care.

I even would have been okay with that decisions screwing me over later on.  Like in a situation later on where I could have bargained a good outcome with the Kett, they know I'm not to be trusted so it isn't an option.

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That is accurate. When I am playing these stories I try to see it through the eyes of my characters and the Kett are the things nightmares are made of.

Hearing those vids of the Salarians being tortured. Knowing they have been abducting the angara for years. Seeing exultation. Talking to the Kett and seeing their absolute lack of remorse. Yeah, it's safe to say I really dislike them and I can't see myself ever being able to hold any kind of sympathy for them what so ever. Zero mercy to the Kett. I wouldn't go so far as to sacrifice other lives to take out a Kett base but I would have zero issues lying to or manipulating the Kett to shut them down.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

There are times where I'd like the option to be "dishonorable" and you know something?  I'd be okay if it had an adverse affect on my relationships with certain people (or improved it in some cases).

For instance, when you rescue the Moshae and you need the Cardinal to open the pods in order to save as many people as possible.  The Cardinal won't do this unless you agree to spare the base.  My Ryder definitely would have agreed to those terms, allowing the Cardinal to open up all those pods, and then blew the base up anyway.

Dishonorable?  Maybe.  Don't care.  And if you do, fine and I understand, but I'd like the option.

So there are times where I'd like the option to go back on my word.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Well there are two things going on here.

1) The choice is between releasing the pods or blowing up the base because there is time pressure. You seem to've forgotten that part. When you choose to release the pods you simply do not have time to set charges and blow up the base because the Kett reinforcements are already incoming.

2) Being able to lie or be deceptive is something that would be more involved than just a choice. When you are being deceptive, when would people believe you and when not? So you would need a new game mechanic that measures your ability to be deceptive and a difficulty for others on how easily they are deceived or not. This also increases the amounts of outcomes. Now, I would say that I like your idea of being able to do this, but I don't think it's something that you can do properly without assigning some real resources to do it. In the end, I'm sure not everything the wanted to do made it to the final cut because of cost control. That's the realist in me speaking, though I would've liked it because I often feel I don't have the options that I would choose if I'd been there.

In this particular case it's a plot device (has to go one way or the other) so deal with it.

Overall though, I would like the option to be dismissive or a total douche....feels too boy/girl scouty as it is.

Well just when you thought you are controlling Ryder, Bioware's controlling all of us by limiting our options lol.  And it's not just not allowing the renegade stuff, they are also making my character a sleezy "un-hero-like" as well(eg stabbing sloane kelly in the back rather than fight her regime).

Yup you have given a good example with regards to the kett base, the thought did cross my mind as well.  Free the angarians, then look at the cardinal and tell SAM to overload/destroy the base...  Then Shoot her in the face.  Anyway if this is real life and anything goes, I would have done a lot more...  Send the angry woman to Elaadin or Kedara, she will change her name to crying woman.  Would have done somethings a little more honorable as well, I would have raided Sloane kelly's hq rather than stab her in the back.  Put Addison on trial for the number of times she neglected her duties and abused her authority(3 Sabres, sparing her Pregnant friend, Spender, etc).

@EgoMania

"....The choice is between releasing the pods or blowing up the base because there is time pressure..."

You're only partially correct here because you're remembering the situation incorrectly.  What actually takes place is that initially they state that there is no way they could open all the pods before reinforcements arrive.  This has nothing to do with your ability to blow up the base as SAM gives you the ability to do so pretty early on.

The Cardinal then offers to automatically open all pods, long as you agree to leave their "holy place" intact.  A condition they would not have needed to specify at all if the two were intertwined.  They are not.

"...Being able to lie or be deceptive is something that would be more involved than just a choice..."

It's not really.  The reason it isn't is for the same reason they didn't have to build a whole new mechanic when they allow you to make impulsive decisions from time to time.  Even though you, on some occasions, can choose to just shoot a hostage taker (or at least once you can), hostage takers still try talking to you rather than the game needing to decide if they would based on you killing them before.

Same thing here.  Occasionally you could be able to lie and have it not always be an option and I already even explained how it would even make sense to let it affect an event later on if negotiating with the Kett would be an option in a future mission.

But re-vamping the entire system would be overkill and unnecessary.

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@VladVonCastein

Some valid points, but I wasn't looking for this to mirror real life.  Real life is too complicated, but in that case and a handful of other missions, it just seems like the option should naturally be there in my opinion.

It's like I accept we're going to have limitations, but sometimes we're unreasonably and or illogically limited.  The Moshae rescue is absolutely one of those situations in my opinion.

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@Vellu78

"...In this particular case it's a plot device (has to go one way or the other) so deal with it...."

I am.  I am also going to voice my opinion just like you're going to voice yours about not having different kinds of options that you personally feel like are not douche enough for you.  Deal with that.

@PretzleMe

Well, it was a negotiating tactic and when you agree to have her release the pods the Kett do arrive, so in fact the reality is that you don't have time to set the charges. It may also have been a tactic to keep you talking in the end. So really BW still doesn't allow you this opportunity because they want you to make a choice under pressure.

And even though what I propose would not be necessary by itself, I do believe it would be necessary for me to be believable if you want to have such options throughout the game. It would feel too cheap to me to have a cop out option where the result of the deception is also fixed. That makes it feel like a choice that has no consequences, thereby invalidating the other choices.

Think it's a matter of quality vs quantity.  In previous games the world so to say was relatively small, they could even develop multiple story lines, paragon/renegade, animation for both, even made shep more distinct(scars and all) if he's renegade.  This game is comparatively larger with the whole open world exploration theme, some gamers got what they wanted.  As for myself, I prefer a more well developed story with options that I can sink my teeth in, rather than 100 hours of fetch quest and planet animations.

@EgoMania

"....Well, it was a negotiating tactic and when you agree to have her release the pods the Kett do arrive, so in fact the reality is that you don't have time to set the charges...."

Charges are not how you blow up the base.  As I mentioned in my previous post, SAM was able to blow up the base almost from the beginning.  So again, you're incorrect and not remembering the mission accurately.

Also, this would have no bearing on your ability to return to this base.

"...And even though what I propose would not be necessary by itself, I do believe it would be necessary for me to be believable if you want to have such options throughout the game..."

By this logic, to you the impulsive decision options through out the game aren't believable either as they often do not change how anyone else interacts with you either even though realistically it would.  That's fine if that is how you personally feel.  I just don't agree.

Though I agree that what you propose would be unnecessary because it would considering you would probably be talking about incorporating such an option 5 times maybe out of how many missions?

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@VladVonCastein

"....As for myself, I prefer a more well developed story with options that I can sink my teeth in, rather than 100 hours of fetch quest and planet animations.,,,"

And I agree with you on that entirely but I am also okay with a bit of compromise.  It's kind of like, you can't just shoot the person during every hostage situation in this game and I was okay with that aspect.

I'm not expecting to be able to lie every time or have more dialogue paths every time, but there are times when even taking into account that we need to compromise due to the size of the game, I feel that compromise went a bit excessive.

It's like, whether you blow the base up or save the Angaran, the dialogue is there for both so adding the option to lie in that instance would have only required maybe roughly 5 more lines of dialogue... if that really.