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Upgrades are one thing, customization is another. Also you can beat Razor with a stock Tier 3 car, it's not that hard.
But fine, let's say you're right and Underground 2 sold so well because it had customization and not because it had a ton of game modes, an actual physics engine, and solid gameplay overall. Explain to me why NFS 2015 and Payback flopped as hard as they did,when they have everything you claim people want from a racing game. Go ahead.
- XGCSith8 years agoSeasoned AceThere are many reasons why Underground 2 sold well. It offered nearly unlimited personalization for cars, full tuning, good cars, a good physics and handling model. The fact that you want to flat out deny customization has nothing to do with a games success is ridiculous. The fact that many people scream for more customization should tell you that. Being able to drive around in your own customized car means a lot in a game. You limit customization and it can make or break a game a lot of times. BTW, I have never seen a factory Tier 3 car beat Razor. The AI is so rubber banded, I dount its even common.
The fact that 2015 and Payback didn't sell so well should be self explanatory. For one, both games do not have the best habdling models though, I think Payback is better with handling. 2015 is far better performance customization. Paybacks performance customization is my lesst favorite feature in a game. The stories are not the best. What set off a lot of people for Payback was the fact it had lootboxes. People automatically jumped to the hate on that without even knowing about it. The fact that you get the same exact items in the game without buying the lootboxes made it seem pointless for people to complain. The fact that these games failed are not because of customization or lack of it, its because somethings are not executed properly. - Anonymous8 years ago
Actually it's because nothing was executed properly apart from the customization, nothing. Ghost made customization their priority and slacked off on everything else, including basic features like the driving and the physics. Why? Because that's all you people ever talk about. You know what NFS 2015 is? It's a typical "be careful what you wish for" scenario. You wanted customization? There you go, enjoy.
As for Underground 2, it sold well because it was a solid game, not because it had customization. If customization were what makes racing games sell well, NFS 2015 and Payback would have broken sales records, instead they're some of the worst selling games in the franchise.
"This should end all the fighting over which NFS games or any game on the market for that matter, sold the highest amount of units."
Did you even bother reading those articles before posting them? They contribute nothing to what we're talking about here.
- XGCSith8 years agoSeasoned Ace@mrtun3r That is your view of it. Underground 2 sold well because of many things, customization being a major one. The options to customize your vehicles were nearly endless in that game.
Also, you can not sit here and say NOTHING was executed properly. Driving and physics were not all that bad in Payback. What do you want? simulation handling and driving? Its not a simulation game. Its an arcade game. 2015 was the same. Just people like you like to dog it out because customization exists and you want a game like MW 2012, which was horrible by the way and did not deserve the Most Wanted title. How do you even know if 2015 and Payback are the worst selling games when the sales numbers haven't even been released? You have no idea how much they have sold. - 8 years ago
Your comment:
"This should end all the fighting over which NFS games or any game on the market for that matter, sold the highest amount of units."
Did you even bother reading those articles before posting them? They contribute nothing to what we're talking about here.
My Reply: Wow...I spent the time and read the articles to show the community some sales facts on NFS Game
and an overall sales of the top selling games on the market.
Dude don't shoot down the articles just because some of them are old....they still have facts that validate what I'm saying!
Regards
BLVD69
- 8 years ago
Here is a link I posted in this thread.
You simply might have missed it...No worries
NFS Payback Sales up to January 2018
Regards
BLVD69
- Anonymous8 years ago
Your argument is contradictory. First you say Underground 2 sold well for many reasons, then you say it sold well because of the customization. Which is it?
Look it really doesn't matter, the fact that NFS 2015 flopped proves your argument is invalid.
"Driving and physics were not all that bad in Payback."
The driving is horrible, one of the worst in the series, second only to NFS 2015. The physics aren't bad because it doesn't have any, the game uses scripts to perform drifting, crashes and jumps. Even Mario Kart has a physics engine.
Also the "simulation vs arcade" argument again? Really? What the hell does it matter if it's a simulator or not? It's a racing game! Since when is "not a simulator" an excuse to make poor design choices?
GOD, millennials.
That's complete BS and you know it, you just took the first 3 results that showed up on Google and posted them here. They're the same results I got when I looked "NFS franchise sales" up.
- 8 years agoI personally got into the NFS series with Underground 2, and I ONLY got into it because of customization. YES, other features of the game are very important to me, and I AM a gearhead, but a racing game that doesn't allow for complete personalization of my car is boring, IMO. That's why I skipped every NFS title between Undercover and 2015. (Actually, I bought Shift 2, and played it about 4 hours and never touched it again because, again, customization).
- XGCSith8 years agoSeasoned Ace
@mrtun3r It did sell well because of many things. I didnt say it sold well because of customization. The gane focused on customization but still so 11 million copies. You're argument and TheRealJonys argument is if a game focuses on customization, it wouldn't sell that well. UG2 is an example of how a game that focuses on customization can sell well. Also, are you forgetting Midnight Club?
How is 2015 proof that my argument is invalid? The game didn't fail because of the customization even though, it did lack in some areas. It was criticized because of the empty world, bland story and the handling wasn't the best.
You can say what you want to say about Payback. I think its an improvement above 2015 though, they should have ported some things over such as the performance upgrading fro. 2015 into Payback. As far as handling goes, im fine with it. You're just a complainer who wants a arcade game to be like a sim racer. Which now brings us to the next point. Yes, the arcade vs sim argument IS valid. They are two different types of racing games within the same genre. One is more realistic as far as how a car handles/performs and one is not. Arcades games are not meant to be a carbon copy of how cars handle in the real world.
Now, can we be done? Quite frankly, im done arguing with you about this stuff. Its quite obvious I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me. - 8 years ago
Also the "simulation vs arcade" argument again? Really? What the hell does it matter if it's a simulator or not? It's a racing game! Since when is "not a simulator" an excuse to make poor design choices?
I will have to disagree, it isn't a poor design choice. Thats why there is a clear difference between the game titled racing and one title simcade or simulation.. They are titled differently because they are different in physics and such. Its like saying all planes are equal. No some planes do certain things while others do other things. No developer is going to go off on a in depth tire model and physic engine to replicate real world handling in a arcade game. Kind of like retro fitting a passenger plane to haul tanks. it is stupid , each is built for its intended purpose just like the games. Thats why i am separating them in my posts. The driving controls in Payback are sufficient enough for me as i can adapt .
- 8 years ago
But Shift 2 had customization , well wasn't massive but it had it sure you are not thinking Shift the first one ? . I played the * out of Shift 2 once i got the annoying physics tweak in it to some what enjoyable lol.
Remember these ?
My tuned NSX with body kit
Dodge charger with the V10 viper engine swap ( btw engine swap would be a cool Payback add on )
Cobalt SS stage 5
and a last memory , customized viper 🙂
- Anonymous8 years ago
Here: http://www.3dtuning.com/
Now stop asking for customization, that's not what racing games are about.
"It did sell well because of many things. I didnt say it sold well because of customization. The gane focused on customization but still so 11 million copies. You're argument and TheRealJonys argument is if a game focuses on customization, it wouldn't sell that well. UG2 is an example of how a game that focuses on customization can sell well."
Well Undergound 2 was over a decade ago. NFS 2015 and Payback are recent examples of how customization ruins racing games.
Also let's not kid ourselves, Underground 2 was far from perfect. It's pretty hard to call it a "Need For Speed" game with a straight face, especially that last bit since the sense of speed in that game was almost non-existent.
"Also, are you forgetting Midnight Club?"
Not at all, I remember it perfectly. I also remember how much better the first and second game were than the rest, before Rockstar decided to add licensed cars and customization and turn it into a bland Underground 2 clone.
"How is 2015 proof that my argument is invalid? The game didn't fail because of the customization even though, it did lack in some areas. It was criticized because of the empty world, bland story and the handling wasn't the best."
All of which were the result of the developers focusing on the customization. So yes, it did fail because of the customization. Payback failed for the same reason, since no matter how much customization they add it will never be enough for you.
"Its like saying all planes are equal. No some planes do certain things while others do other things"
Not really. They're all planes, they all fly. If they don't, then they're not very good planes.
Dude I literally Googled it before replying and got the exact same results, stop lying.
- XGCSith8 years agoSeasoned Ace@mrtun3r actually both 2015 and Payback were criticized for their lack of customization. 2015 had cars that constantly had "parts not available" messages in many parts of the cars. Payback has more customization but bit nearly enough to say that was one of the reasons it failed. The reasons why it failed in your eyes is, it was marketed as an action driving game and that didn't land very well. It was also marketed for cop chases, that didn't land either. What also was heavily criticized was the performance customization. There are many ways the game failed and it wasn't because of customization. Both games have a lackluster police presence and emply worlds. Both did not have nearly the amount of customization that people wanted. Both has stories that didn't land very well. To say they failed because of customization is a very very big over statement. The speed part was is UG2 considering you could build cars to go close to 220 MPH, just the feel wasn't there. Its old technology. Again, proof that games can succeed with massive amounts of customization have been proven. You just want a game like the old ones and thats not what the majority wants. Also, you claim customization ruins racing games yet the majority of racing games with customization have succeeded and sold very well. Stop tagging 3DTUNING its a horrible game and its not even the same thing as what we are talking about.
Midnight is far from a bland UG2 clone by the way. - 8 years ago
NFS 2015 did have customization issues but it has way better gameplay than Payback at least on multiplayer.
There are way more players in 2015 than in Payback.
There are tons of problems unsolved for Payback... we paid for a better game and it is trash.
So you feel fine about this and already make a stupid topic about a new game while millions of fans are disappointed and feel rip off.
Yeah good idea, let's forget about 70-90$ we spent, ( consider a donation for EA), and think about a new game... we will pay another 70-90$ again and if that game won't be good, fine... we will make another suggestion about a new game again, and again, and again.
IT'S TIME TO STOP PAYING FOR EA IN CASE YOU DON'T MIND MY PERSONAL OPINION.
PS: Make some research on internet about EA dude and wake up!
- 8 years ago
Thats not what he is saying . He simply made a good , not stupid post to just relax and share ideas about future ideas for a next NFS game for fun. It was a fine and simple idea but as per the usual here lately you cant post anything with out having some one start forcing their own negative agenda on it. We all know that Payback has its issues as this is not a recent thing with any EA game and their is plenty of other posts discussing this. No one is saying all is just roses with the game. We are just trying to do some out side of cimplain 100% of the time. I swear i could start a post saying " Share your favorite color " and with in a post or 2 some would be going off about how they feel the shade of orange in this game isn't properly done to their liking and that would lead to some one saying the game isn't properly done and on and on. No longer can we have a separation of simple fun posts and posts that discuss issue in a adult manner. This one was supposed to be about harmless ideas and sharing and now every one is arguing about whos opinion is right or wrong , which game was better and why bother trying to find any good in it at all. As soon as some comes on here and tries to make a topic that's positive and fun some has to come and sh*t on it with in record time.
You do some research on the internet as well as here, @XGCSith has done way more research on here then most complainers. Go to the earlier replies over on the NFS 2015 forum and it doesn't read like it is so awesome as some say it is now.. Saying 2015 is better now is just another leverage tool to hate Payback. 2 years from now every one will be hating on the next installement while saying ' Yeah Payback had its issues but it was still a good game over all, not like this new pile of cr*p. "
- 8 years ago
Oh and why are all the complainers here always crying about the fact that no one doesn't want to hear their opinion at the same time their pissing on others opinion even worse. If you want others to listen and respect yours then do the same for theirs for crying out loud.
- 8 years ago
@master2gwrote:
Go to the earlier replies over on the NFS 2015 forum and it doesn't read like it is so awesome as some say it is now.. Saying 2015 is better now is just another leverage tool to hate Payback. 2 years from now every one will be hating on the next installement while saying ' Yeah Payback had its issues but it was still a good game over all, not like this new pile of cr*p. "Preach it master2g! Amen! I was literally LOL'ing when some of the NFS Youtubers started this nonsense about how 2015 was better, and then the comments were flooded with people saying the same thing. My how quickly we forget.
This isn't just a Need for Speed series issue. It's the general attitude today. For example, NOTHING good could be said about Batman Arkham Origins when it was released. I was on the forums every day defending its many good points. But the haters were FLOODING the forums. Then a year later Arkham Knight comes out, and some of the same people are like "So I went ahead and played through Origins, and now it's my favorite of the whole series."
- 8 years ago
^^^^ Moderators will you please give this guy extra XP for me . Use some of mine if you have to lol.
so friggen true man, so friggen true.
- Anonymous8 years ago
@XGCSithwrote:
@mrtun3ractually both 2015 and Payback were criticized for their lack of customization. 2015 had cars that constantly had "parts not available" messages in many parts of the cars. Payback has more customization but bit nearly enough to say that was one of the reasons it failed. The reasons why it failed in your eyes is, it was marketed as an action driving game and that didn't land very well. It was also marketed for cop chases, that didn't land either. What also was heavily criticized was the performance customization. There are many ways the game failed and it wasn't because of customization. Both games have a lackluster police presence and emply worlds. Both did not have nearly the amount of customization that people wanted. Both has stories that didn't land very well. To say they failed because of customization is a very very big over statement. The speed part was is UG2 considering you could build cars to go close to 220 MPH, just the feel wasn't there. Its old technology. Again, proof that games can succeed with massive amounts of customization have been proven. You just want a game like the old ones and thats not what the majority wants. Also, you claim customization ruins racing games yet the majority of racing games with customization have succeeded and sold very well. Stop tagging 3DTUNING its a horrible game and its not even the same thing as what we are talking about.
Midnight is far from a bland UG2 clone by the way.Both Payback and the reboot, '15, had things that were done good/great. They didn't combine and improve on a lot of things, which then made Payback feel a step ahead and 2 steps back because of some anti player satisfaction features. Also the EA loot box, micro-transactions issues and 2015 didn't get that part because it was well before all this.
Now im not feeling hopeful about NFS, before NFS ('15) i had good feelings about it but it still disappointed me in several ways. Then with Payback i wasn't excited much at all and bought it when the Deluxe dropped to $50. Currently i have almost 0 high hopes for NFS and street racing now, but maybe the grind/loot box * will go away in the next one.
Midnight Club is my first street racing game, MC3: Dub Edition. It definitely exceeds many Need for Speed games with some fantastic customization, music, difficulty, and unique features.
Then Midnight Club: Los Angeles with interior customization! Tell me which street racing game had that! MC had things ahead of its time, and details that even someone today would be impressed by. My favorite racing series, period. But MW and NFS: Carbon come up in my list, just not past MC.
- TheRealJony8 years agoHero+
@master2g wrote:
NFS is mainly an arcade racing game, not a simulation racing game thus its main priority shouldn't be handling , driving physics.
@master2g You do realize that arcade racing games are supposed to have unrealistic and fun driving physics, right?
Arcade = Unrealistic and fun physics
Simulation = Realistic and real life physics
Simcade = Mix of arcade and simulation
Driving physics should be #1 priority for ALL racing games. Doesn't matter if it's an arcade racing game, simulation racing game, and simcade racing game.
All driving physics should be made enjoyable for all players to enjoy driving their beloved cars in games.
@master2g wrote:
I cant think of any arcade games because i just don't go into a non sim game expecting the same results as I get from the Simulation games i play. I treat them as entirely different entities. I don't really go into Arcade games like Payback expecting perfect physics thus i don't really take them seriously and am not disappointing much. I just need decent controls that i can make work and Im satisfied.
Well...of course...
The same cars in arcade racing games will handle differently than the same cars in simulation racing games...
@master2g wrote:
Plus Im a customization addict so I could be a tad bias on this subject 🙂
Welp, it's pointless to continue arguing now.
Have a good day, night, afternoon, whatever it is where you are.
@XGCSith wrote:
What I am saying specifically is we want another Underground. Thats what people have been wanting for years.
@XGCSith wrote:
.As I said before, if they follow the same model they did with UG2, it won't fail. Again, people have been wanting another UG since UG2 came out.@XGCSith Who's "we"?
Oh wait, you're using the royal "we".
I absolutely do not want NFS Underground 3, so that royal "we" does not apply. Only you (master2g and Jabberwocky79 as well) want NFS Underground 3.
I see you (and some others above) are one of those guys that still continues to wish NFS Underground 3 becomes a reality for over 10 years. So it's pointless to even continue arguing.
Have a good day, night, afternoon, whatever it is where you are.
By the way, my first NFS game I played was NFS Underground 1. Loved playing it.
@XGCSith wrote:
.Also, I'm kind of confused on what you said to @master2g. You pretty much agreed with him but didn't.Both you and master2g offered simulation racing games suggestions for people that don't like customization in arcade racing games.
I said those are not very good suggestions when NFS is mainly an arcade racing game.
Offer arcade racing game suggestions if you guys can think of any.
@master2g wrote:
It was a fine and simple idea but as per the usual here lately you cant post anything with out having some one start forcing their own negative agenda on it.
This is called criticism. Nothing wrong with posting criticism about a game here.
@master2g wrote:
CLP122214 has done way more research on here then most complainers....
@master2g wrote:
2 years from now every one will be hating on the next installement while saying ' Yeah Payback had its issues but it was still a good game over all, not like this new pile of cr*p.That's laughable.
No seriously. You're also using the royal "we" as well.
It's one year from now and I'll be waiting to know more information about the upcoming NFS game first.
@master2g wrote:
Oh and why are all the complainers here always crying about the fact that no one doesn't want to hear their opinion at the same time their pissing on others opinion even worse. If you want others to listen and respect yours then do the same for theirs for crying out loud.
No one here is crying FYI.
I give my point of view. You give your point of view. Others give their points of view. That's it.
Nobody's crying here.
@master2g wrote:
^^^^ Moderators will you please give this guy extra XP for me .
Sorry. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I give XP when I feel like giving it.
@master2g wrote:
Use some of mine if you have to lol.
I don't have the power to do that.
For people that wish NFS Underground 3 becomes a reality, this video is for you:
@mrtun3r Good luck. I'm done here.
- 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
@TheRealJonywrote:@XGCSithWho's "we"?
Oh wait, you're using the royal "we".
I absolutely do not want NFS Underground 3, so that royal "we" does not apply. Only you (master2g and Jabberwocky79 as well) want NFS Underground 3.
I see you (and some others above) are one of those guys that still continues to wish NFS Underground 3 becomes a reality for over 10 years. So it's pointless to even continue arguing.
Have a good day, night, afternoon, whatever it is where you are.
By the way, my first NFS game I played was NFS Underground 1. Loved playing it.
*BZZZZT* Wrong. I'm actually hoping for Payback 2! Bwahaahaahahahahahaha!!! *That's an evil laugh because I seriously am
- Anonymous8 years ago
I don't think you quite realize just how much work goes into car customization for these games. It was easy for Underground 2 because that game didn't feature any car damage or physics based textures. Or anything even remotely complicated for that matter, you couldn't even see inside the bloody car in that game. Adding one bumper to a car in NFS 2015 or Payback means creating several different meshes, animations and textures for that part alone in order to account for all those features. Not taking into account more extreme modifications like the chassis options on the Ford Coupe or the Chevy C10, which require new assets for several parts just to accommodate one customization option.
Put all of that into perspective and before you know it, your two years are up and you're three months away from release with barely anything to show for it besides some really good customization which even that isn't enough for the fanbase you're trying to please.
As for Midnight Club 3, it was inferior to the previous games in the series in many ways. The cars couldn't get destroyed, you couldn't run pedestrians over, the cities didn't have nearly as much destruction, not to mention it went back to being a console exclusive which limited the graphics and framerate severely.
I agree. This is our fault, stop bloody buying EA games until they either start charging what they're worth or they make them worth $60.
CLIP122214'sarguments have no base and he contradicts himself regularly, constantly kissing his behind only puts you in the same boat, so maybe tap the brakes a little.
NFS 2015 was terrible, it represents everything that's wrong with present day car culture and racing games in general. At least with Payback they acknowledged somewhat that the direction they were going in was wrong and decided to try something else. The only thing NFS 2015 did better were the graphics, but given the fact that it didn't feature dynamic time of day that doesn't really count for much.
- 8 years ago
Agreeing with some one constantly because they make way better and more adult comments then your and others grade 8 level nit picking one sided constant instigating uselessness is not * kissing. Sadly I can only count about 4 people here that try and try to be positive and respectful and yet there is always those like you who call them out or use words like bigot but can let any one have an opinion if it is opposing to yours . Its plain to see what this forum has become. Im done trying to have adult conversation when the majority of posters act like kids . Any one that comes on here and tries to be positive and talk about the game they like are labeled * kissing or what ever else you haters can come up with. How dare we come on here with a postive attitude and talk good and ruin your self loathing in misery. . A moderator once ask how I was liking the forums and i said it was pretty good. My how that has changed.
You stick around and have fun getting off on causing bull * with your so called "opinions" I dont need this forum as bad as your type do. It seem in the last 3 weeks you have been here its all gone to hell as every post you show up pissing on people with your self proclaimed wittiness and smart remarks. Apparently thats allowed here over some normal adult conversation which gets turned into this stuff every time now. . Im done and yes you most certainly can have the last word as i know how much it means to you to think you won so you can dance around feeling good about your self . Some kids now days are like that .
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