A cont. of the previous thread which has now been locked: https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion-News/presentation-doesn-t-Work-For-Nhl-23/m-p/12089563#M6443
We have to keep this constructive or this one will be too.
I think people are expecting EA to just admit nothing is being changed or added back, and the mods here have said as much, you've just gotta read between the lines.
With this much dissatisfaction and such an uproar, this would've been priority #1 to fix to the dev team IF it was going to be fixed, you don't just start a fire and watch it burn unless your intent was to just let it be in the first place.
Time to just realize this is it for 23, and hope 24 is different
I made a comment about this, ironically in a now deleted post. It’s why I was saying to bring in more to help you out with these situations. This isn’t your fault by any means and I’m not implying that at all, but some of the transparency that comes out simply has no logic to it or data to back it up.
This is probably a case of the person giving you the information not being able to reveal the true meaning of why changes were made, but some of the reasoning given over the last couple years are borderline insulting and are clearly put out as an excuse without much thought behind it.
Community Manager
@kyl_35 wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:
As far as being more transparent goes, I tried that with the True Broadcast camera thread. It wasn't as well received as I hoped. Normally, our transparency just results in more toxic responses. Which doesn't give us motivation to be more transparent.
I firmly disagree with you saying the responses you received in that thread were “toxic”. You received a lot of appreciation from people for the clarity while they were also expressing the frustration behind the decision.
Any of the posts you don’t like in that thread would have been as bad or worse had you said nothing.
The appreciation was great. That doesn't go unnoticed, but you're also not seeing the posts that had to be removed. While we know some people appreciate the transparency, it tends to invite a lot of rude responses. We expect to get them, but hoped for better in this case. Especially with the requests to be more transparent, which we did, but it didn't go over as well as we hoped. I'm not saying we'll never do that again, but as far as an experiment goes, it was met with mixed results.
@Beauts90 I believe you had a post that was part of a thread that was removed.
I read through every single page of the old thread religiously. I missed nothing, and the sprinkling of badly written off the wall remarks were always removed within 24 hours of posting.
There was an abundance of appreciation for @EA_Aljo chiming in and letting us know the team was well aware of the feedback.
I just don’t get the toxicity sentiment being hailed as a reason for the thread lock. It was a catch all for players upset about the decision. It was inherently negative because we are upset about the removal, and the advertised improved presentation meant nothing at the end of the day when presentation as a whole was neutered without the option to change it. The optics on locking discussion on a public outcry are very poor in my opinion.
moderation exists to remove the bad apples of the group. Not silence the discussion for all, the majority of which were giving well written input on why the decision upset them.
This thread lock was already highlighted by a member at Operation Sports where it sits at the top of the NHL page with 170 replies and counting, Clearly people elsewhere are taking notice and the overwhelming majority feel like this is an attempt to silence the negative feedback. Op Sports is an active, engaged community so to see EA forum activity highlighted over there with so much attention really speaks to the gravity of the presentation debacle with NHL 23.
I’ve seen the same sentiment expressed on Reddit and all over YouTube.
Community ManagerWe're not trying to silence anyone. I get that's how it looks, but that's not the case. That thread had run it's course. It was basically repeating the same thing over and over again along with a lot of negativity towards us. It wasn't really being constructive along the lines of presentation.
While this thread is a lot more civil, it's no longer about presentation. It's about locking the previous thread. So, which is more important? Talking about our handling of that thread or presentation itself? This is what we mean by not being constructive. This really points to the issue not even being about presentation any longer since it's not really being discussed. It's now transitioned to a discussion about the thread being locked. When there is nothing more to say about the topic of the thread and it mainly becomes complaining about the company that makes the game, it's no longer providing feedback we haven't heard before.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@kyl_35 wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:As far as being more transparent goes, I tried that with the True Broadcast camera thread. It wasn't as well received as I hoped. Normally, our transparency just results in more toxic responses. Which doesn't give us motivation to be more transparent.
I firmly disagree with you saying the responses you received in that thread were “toxic”. You received a lot of appreciation from people for the clarity while they were also expressing the frustration behind the decision.
Any of the posts you don’t like in that thread would have been as bad or worse had you said nothing.
The appreciation was great. That doesn't go unnoticed, but you're also not seeing the posts that had to be removed. While we know some people appreciate the transparency, it tends to invite a lot of rude responses. We expect to get them, but hoped for better in this case. Especially with the requests to be more transparent, which we did, but it didn't go over as well as we hoped. I'm not saying we'll never do that again, but as far as an experiment goes, it was met with mixed results.
@Beauts90 I believe you had a post that was part of a thread that was removed.
I can see where you’re coming from, but consider what it looks like…
Every time we’re transparent about the reason for something people get really mad at the reason and poke holes in the logic. So we’re just not going to provide reasons anymore.
Deleted posts aside, it looks crazy sketchy to make game impacting moves and then not provide any clarity. It makes people even more skeptical about things we’re not told about; and it’s a big reason EA has lost the benefit of the doubt with most people on this board.
And just to get the thread back on track…
I still haven’t bought the game and likely
won’t until a couple of things are fixed. One of those being Full Presentation coming back. Even then, one thing is certain…
Community Manager
@kyl_35 wrote:
I can see where you’re coming from, but consider what it looks like…
Every time we’re transparent about the reason for something people get really mad at the reason and poke holes in the logic. So we’re just not going to provide reasons anymore.
Deleted posts aside, it looks crazy sketchy to make game impacting moves and then not provide any clarity. It makes people even more skeptical about things we’re not told about; and it’s a big reason EA has lost the benefit of the doubt with most people on this board.
This is what I mean when I say people twist our words. This isn't about having holes poked in the logic. It's comments like this that add to our reasoning for limiting what we say here. We try to be more open and transparent, but that gets twisted into something that isn't at all what we were talking about. That and it invites a lot of toxic responses where people just rage at us. That's not constructive at all.
I agree we could be more clear though. I'd like to see our patch notes improve and explain the changes better.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@kyl_35 wrote:I can see where you’re coming from, but consider what it looks like…
Every time we’re transparent about the reason for something people get really mad at the reason and poke holes in the logic. So we’re just not going to provide reasons anymore.
Deleted posts aside, it looks crazy sketchy to make game impacting moves and then not provide any clarity. It makes people even more skeptical about things we’re not told about; and it’s a big reason EA has lost the benefit of the doubt with most people on this board.
This is what I mean when I say people twist our words. This isn't about having holes poked in the logic. It's comments like this that add to our reasoning for limiting what we say here. We try to be more open and transparent, but that gets twisted into something that isn't at all what we were talking about. That and it invites a lot of toxic responses where people just rage at us. That's not constructive at all.
I agree we could be more clear though. I'd like to see our patch notes improve and explain the changes better.
I am not twisting your words. I’m illustrating what message that action would send.
