Re: Unbalanced goalies and low OVR teams

@EA_Aljo 

Instead of constantly asking for videos why don't you play just a few games. It's like everybody that reports a problem on this forum is playing a different game than you. 

Anyway, every time someone sends a good video proof of the problem, the video is either removed or you blame it on the way the person is playing. Like there's only EA's way to play hockey. 

By the way I lost 3-2 against a 69 rated team last weekend at SB after winning 5-2 against a 85 rated team at Superstar (I've only lost 7 games so far at SB this year). My team is rated 84. I decided to replay the game at PRO level thinking that I would destroy the 69 rated team. I lost 1-0, I couldn't even score a goal against a guy that would never play in the NHL. I had one shot in the entire 3rd period against a bunch of junior players. What more do you need?

@6hpy2hzsfzas 

I play this game every day. I also send many videos over to the team for review. So far though, in the several years I've been asking for videos of faster skaters being beat by slower ones, nobody has been able to get that. None that showed this was actually happening at least. If it were as common as you say, we'd have received a very high amount of videos on this.

I'm not sure why you're struggling on Pro. Some video would help understand that. I know a large amount of the playerbase, including myself, plays on Superstar and is able to win against lower as well as higher rated teams.

@EA_Aljo So far though, in the several years I've been asking for videos of faster skaters being beat by slower ones, nobody has been able to get that.

If you play that much then you know it's true but that's fine, you can stick to your propaganda "EA and the FC, Madden and NHL teams remain committed to fair play". 

I can tell you what else is true. I played hundred of thousands of games over the years and player and team ratings doesn't matter when you play HUT. Yes, if you have a higher rated team it helps wining more games, otherwise people would stop buying packs, but that doesn't guarantee a win no matter how well you play. That's why I stopped playing online. I just been playing SB since NHL 22 and the fairness of the game have significantly decreased over the years and a lot of people just gave up on complaining and sending videos. That doesn't mean the problem is solved.

When I read customer reviews on XBOX and PS5, I can see that I'm not the only one feeling that "EA and the FC, Madden and NHL teams remain committed to fair play" is a real joke.

@6hpy2hzsfzas 

We'll have to agree to disagree then. The game is not deciding when you win and lose. If you ever happen to get video of slower skaters beating faster ones, let me know. So far, nobody has been able to prove it's real. Which makes sense because it's absolutely not.

It's odd that you say ratings don't matter, but then go on to say they do. Regardless, you're welcome to see how far a bronze team gets you. Of course, it's not impossible to win against higher rated teams for those that have a high personal skill.

@EA_Aljo The game is not deciding when you win and lose.

I have many videos that prove otherwise but I'm not going to waste my time uploading them since I know it's a dead end. You guy's at EA are well aware of it.

Gamers that play a lot (those who have no life and spend 3,000$ on their HUT teams) are the bread and butter of this game. And these guy's are getting better every year so EA has to make the game more difficult for them otherwise they will get bored and stop playing. So yes, they will lose against lower skilled players every now and then.

Casual players, if they keep losing game after game they will stop playing and that's not good for EA so they need to win a few on a regular basis to keep interest.

That's what I meant by saying players and team ratings don't matter. When you hit the post 3 times in the same period, when you get scored on a garbage goal with 15 sec left in the game, when the opposing goalie makes a grand larceny save at the end of the game to prevent you from tying the game or when your own players are getting in your shooting lane to prevent you from scoring, when your players are reacting late on every play, and those are just a few examples. Keep in mind that this is a game so everything is programmed. 

Unfortunately, this recipe killed the game play. Not only the game feels unfair but it feels like it's cheap programming.

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@6hpy2hzsfzas wrote:

@EA_Aljo The game is not deciding when you win and lose.

I have many videos that prove otherwise but I'm not going to waste my time uploading them since I know it's a dead end. You guy's at EA are well aware of it.

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We're most definitely aware it's not real. This was even challenged in court and dismissed. If you have videos that you feel prove it though, you're welcome to show them.

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@6hpy2hzsfzas wrote:

Gamers that play a lot (those who have no life and spend 3,000$ on their HUT teams) are the bread and butter of this game. And these guy's are getting better every year so EA has to make the game more difficult for them otherwise they will get bored and stop playing. So yes, they will lose against lower skilled players every now and then.

Casual players, if they keep losing game after game they will stop playing and that's not good for EA so they need to win a few on a regular basis to keep interest.

That's what I meant by saying players and team ratings don't matter. When you hit the post 3 times in the same period, when you get scored on a garbage goal with 15 sec left in the game, when the opposing goalie makes a grand larceny save at the end of the game to prevent you from tying the game or when your own players are getting in your shooting lane to prevent you from scoring, when your players are reacting late on every play, and those are just a few examples. Keep in mind that this is a game so everything is programmed. 

Unfortunately, this recipe killed the game play. Not only the game feels unfair but it feels like it's cheap programming.

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Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but spending more time focusing on your own play instead of thinking the computer is deciding when you win and lose will probably result in more Ws. 

At any rate, this conversation has gone in to ice tilt territory so I'm gonna have to shut it down. You're more than welcome to send any videos to me through private messages. 

Is the DDA in effect for SB?  It definitely seems to be in Moments. 
Also, you (or another moderator) said recently that the computer AI improves quality of play at times. How is that any different?

The OP is responding to his own gut feeling, which attributes successes to personal qualities and failures to external conditions. Everyone does it. I certainly do. But, that doesn’t mean what he is saying is unfair. It just means he can’t explain it, and would like to be able to do so. Can anyone at EA?

At the end of the day, people can’t play like the computer can. Not literally, and not practically. The delayed response of avatars, which does not affect computer avatars, can feel very deliberate. Is it?

@NewStart01 

I didn't say the AI improves. AI players will adjust their strategies. They also fight harder and take more risks when they're down. Their attributes and abilities do not change.

I think there is no purpose for AI to change strategies or take more risks (adjust game play) except to challenge the player more. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, but it is definitely “improvement”. 

Anybody who has played sports knows that changing focus or strategies while behind doesn’t make an athlete stronger or faster, but can still change the game completely. If the trailing team wins, that’s “improvement”. 

Nobody is anthropomorphizing AI game play. But, anything that makes it “feel” like the AI is trying harder is also going to feel like “improvement” to the human player. 

If you make Shaq angry and he starts dominating you under the bucket, he didn’t get taller. But he definitely got better. At your expense. 

@NewStart01 

They aren't getting stronger or faster. They are adjusting strategies and taking more chances. You're welcome to provide video showing your concerns.

I literally said I am sure the player attributes don’t change. They don’t have to. If the AI changes to a better strategy, or uses different parameters to determine successful actions leading to a lesser outcome for the human, the AI “improved.”

Perhaps I am unfairly reading your “feel free to post a video” sentence in the wrong tone, but it sure “feels” petty. No need for that. My comment was clear and rational. If I stated something incorrectly, please quote it so that I can correct it and own the error. 

@NewStart01 

You're welcome to post any videos showing the issue you're reporting. 

You have said that the player attributes do not change in a game. I agree. You have said that the AI can adjust game play under certain circumstances. I agree. What kind of video are you expecting?  And what can I expect in return?

Where we seem to differ is in our concept of how the term “improvement” should be applied. Are you saying that playing the exact same team, with the exact same attributes (OVR), is not more difficult in superstar than in rookie?  Or am I missing something?  Do I need to post a video of that to show that superstar is harder than rookie, even if the player strength and speed is the same?

@NewStart01 

When it comes to different difficulty levels, rookie vs superstar for example, the players have their reaction times increased. Their overall abilities, shooting, passing, puck control, etc., do not raise. 

What you're accusing the game of doing is giving lower overall players some kind of artificial advantage. I get that you're not saying attributes are changed though. You also have to keep in mind confirmation bias. If someone loses to a lower rated team, they don't take accountability and blame the game because they think a higher OVR is guaranteed a win. If this happens multiple times, it's easy to say the game is at fault. That's really not the case at all though. It's more about how the game is played out on both sides and, quite often, AI players play better than human players. 

I'm asking for video because I want to know why you feel the game is unfairly boosting lower rated teams.

No, actually, I didn’t accuse the game of anything. 

I appreciate the whole confirmation bias thing. I said the same. When I used to teach intro to psych, that concept was part of the course. I lose to lower OVR teams all the time. None of that is what I’m saying. 

I will try this once more. I’d like to think you’re just not getting it, but thanks to EA’s character, it’s possible that you get it, but are being deliberately obfuscatory. Who knows. 

The AI can change how difficult a team is to play without changing any player attributes. There is abundant evidence of that built in to the game. I don’t think any rational player can argue that it can’t happen. It’s a part of SB.  

Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check.  The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice. 

But, the question was asked : Did the AI adjust the game?  You said it does do that by changing strategies, or aggression. It takes some chances. Maybe you didn’t mean it the way it sounded. Maybe you have no clue. That’s fine too. All I said is that it “feels” like the computer improved. Everything since then has been you arguing with yourself. 

I don’t have video of feelings, but I am sure there is video of AI players doing impossible things. Somewhere I have a video of my goalie sliding backwards through the net, getting stuck behind it, and AI firing the puck into the now empty net. That’s an outdated example (19?), but it happens. When it helps the AI, it “feels” like an advantage. No video required.  

@NewStart01 

Thanks for the clarification. The best I can tell you is that this is not true:

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@NewStart01 wrote:

Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check.  The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice. 

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We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. This is a theory people have had for many years and still, nobody has ever been able to prove it exists. It was also dismissed in court after giving access to our engineers. Thanks for the all the feedback.

Sounds good. What are we agreeing to disagree about, exactly?

Only thing i will add is on Superstar the lower rated players are way faster than they should be.  

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@NewStart01 wrote:

Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check.  The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice. 

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This is what we can agree to disagree on. What you're suggesting does not exist in NHL 24. Human AI teammates are not modified by the game to start playing worse and opposing AI players are not forced to artificially play better. They will change their strategies, which are the same strategies everyone has access to. They will also play more aggressive and take more chances. They are fighting harder when down, as real world teams do. Nothing is going on behind the scenes to force either side to play better or worse.

At this point, we've heavily gone in to ice tilt territory and need to lock the thread. This is why these discussions are not allowed as they just end up in a circle where we're repeating ourselves. There is absolutely no ice tilt, DDA, scripting, catch up logic, etc.