Scoring

EA_Aljo wrote:

It was intentional this was removed. Unfortunately, I don't have any other details. While there have been a few requests for it since it was removed, there hasn't been a lot of talk about it. I'll pass on the feedback for you.

I too miss this mechanic especially since the R1/RT button is just a duplication of the dive. But if it were removed because it caused an issue with something else I understand.

I have to be honest, I do think with the implementation of abilities weve gone from having to watch 1 or 2 xfactor players to watching all five and with that goalies have not been able to keep up. Its like facing 5 mcdavids, or 3 mcdavid forwards and 2 makars on defense. I do understand the need for a better defensive game by most players but I still feel as if goalies are fighting a losing battle, and at the end of the day if the majority of the community isnt expert defense players, goalies just arent gonna have a fighting chance. From a video game perspective it would be nice if a goalie could make up for this if he were to be a great goalie.

FourZeroVI wrote:

Was thinking about this some more as well, because of the attention given to defense and goalie, it would be nice to add an additional statistic to the intermission screen such as High Danger Chance %. Basically if there are 10 shots and 8 of them are within the High Danger Chance area, this statistic would be 80%, similar to the faceoff and pass % statistic. This will at least give some information and attention that could be brought to whether or not the defense is doing an adequate job of protecting the center of the ice.

I'd also like to requote this idea as I think it is not only important for the gameplay and evaluation of gameplay but to help alleviate and share some of the toxic blame that comes naturally  with a competitive game. I truly believe that the reason you may see less and less human goalies is because of how much blame a goalie takes on and no matter what you try to say, its always going to be 5v1.

Screens: As shown in a few clips Ive seen, as well as utilizing gold x-ray, screens are happening almost every play and on every shot, even breakaways, I think the only solution to this is to limit the effects these screens have. Again with all of the boosts given shooters, yes goalies are given boosts as well but youre taking them away in the very same sentence with things like screens.

Passing: I have seen passes that are so fast due to being able to skate around with the R2 button held the entire time that no human goalie can react to it so goalies are forced to try and cheat the play or preemptively move as the pass begins (basically making an educated guess that the pass is gonna happen) in order to even have a chance at a save.

Covers: I'm not sure what the issue is with covers but what I can tell you is that whatever causes goalies to attempt a cover, miss, and sometimes throw it into their own net needs to be addressed. This includes post play, which im sure everyone has seen, where a goalie is attempting to cover the puck that is just outside the post and instead looks like he's playing the game hungry hungry hippos instead.

At the end of the day I understand the balance of wanting a simulation hockey game as well as a fun to play game. A potential balance to having 5 skaters with 3 abilities a piece to worry about would be to give goalies a 4th ability. Not sure how that would go over but I think when you add something like 5 players on the ice all with x-factors, you need to make the goalies a little more powerful especially in WOC because youre seeing more fire power on the ice in front of you than a typical nhl game.

EA_Aljoany thoughts on this^ would love to hear your opinion

I never play goalie so I'm not really sure how much of an impact a 4th ability would have. Personally, I'd rather just see the existing issues with goalies get resolved. As long as a 4th ability wouldn't make goalies OP somehow, it seems like it could be a good addition. This is pure speculation though. The best I can do is pass on your feedback.

"I do understand the need for a better defensive"

Yes, I think as a community most NHL players lean more offensively and have more talent in scoring goals.. that being said I think the game tends to lean more offensively (although I have found this game does a much better job at allowing defensive players to pick off passes and I feel more involved on defense, poke checking is mostly in a good place, i think net battling feels a bit clunky at times) I think icon passing and perfect puck handling just gives the game more of an offensive lean, and then there is the issue of builds. The defense is always at the mercy of the offense. If they have "wheels" at the wing with 99 speed and then a powerforward with a really good reverse hit/ net front capabilities at center, you gotta make a build fast enough to control wheels but defensively sound enough and durable enough to withstand any physical play of the center. If the defenseman underestimates either in what they can do the problem then falls on the goalie. I personally think wheels was just a bad idea altogether but that's a different issue.

I REALLY like the high danger shot percentage idea. Maybe even a shots saved above expected metric. I'm unsure how well the video game could correctly identify these metrics though (not trying to shame the devs on that, I'm not even sure how analytical people get all of their numbers sometimes)

"Passing: I have seen passes that are so fast due to being able to skate around with the R2 button held the entire time"

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the passing speed tops out, I also think the pass seems to cancel out if held too long. That being said, I personally dislike the icon passing. In the real NHL passes are missed a lot, I thought things seemed better when players were forced to aim their passes (that's a different argument though) I just think for icon vs manual passes there should be a tradeoff. (No chance of saucer with icon)

"Covers"

I agree with everything you wrote here! This is the kind of stuff I made this post for. This is why I believe goalies need the most attention in the game right now. Some of the animations just seem too wild, misplaced, or unrelable.

4 ability goalie I could get behind. I think humans could use a boost whether in stats or abilities to close the gap with cpu goalies. There was a time I felt the answer was to make cpu goalies worse to incentivize more humans.. I think the real move is to find more ways to improve humans. I think giving them a bit more attribute points or another ability would be cool. 

I think another thing EA should REALLY consider bringing back (and adding onto) is that training camp mode. In fact I would have a whole practice mode built into EASHL where different drills can be custom built, players could play on offense or defense, etc. I would also include a goalie training course. Have a real life goalie and perhaps a couple of the best EASHL goalies give tips/ suggestions as to how to play the position. After the game have the coach report card and have it suggest diff drills to improve their game. They give up multiple 1T then have it suggest a drill in defending that or what attributes/ abilities may help balance out their game better. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game is SO much better with human goalies. Let's do everything we can to incentivize people to play that position and for clubs to actually seek them out. 

I’d like to know what EA’s intentions were/are for removing it.  It was a commonly useful tool that I particularly used to prevent a lot of wraparounds and to combat the “floating” pads issue.  I highly doubt it was removed because it caused another problem because it didn’t in years past.  Or was it “intentional” like how they nerfed the faceoff puck dump/flip up the boards to benefit their new pressure system?  

EA needs to be more transparent with certain changes to the game to lessen the confusion and frustration a lot of users have.  

rsandersr47 wrote:

The defense is always at the mercy of the offense.

I think this is primarily due to the the nature of the sport combined with way the average player plays defence. Many people chase and are impatient. They throw a lot of inputs at their defender and then wonder why players always seem to have a step on them. Then they point to the X-factors, abilities, etc and claim offense is given far more of an advantage. But then we get into hockey fundamentals. 

Possession of the puck gives that team control of the game's pace and the opportunity to create scoring chances. The team with the puck can dictate play, force the defending team to react, and has the ability to directly score goals. The defending team will always be in a reactionary position but those with experience and skill will be reading the plays and require less reaction time to offensive plays.

rsandersr47 wrote:

although I have found this game does a much better job at allowing defensive players to pick off passes and I feel more involved on defense, poke checking is mostly in a good place, i think net battling feels a bit clunky at times)

100% agree. The fluidity of DSS and the consistency of intercepting pucks when your blade is in the passing lane (and there's enough reaction time) has been a massive improvement defensively. I'd like to see the poke check mechanic reworked so that you can enter DSS without a slowdown of the initial puck animation. Right now you have to do this by holding Right-Stick left or right before initializing DSS which is okay, but I'd like to see the 'slowdown' on the poke check activated once poke check is released rather than as soon as it's pressed. This would allow players to more naturally initialize DSS without a speed penalty.

FourZeroVI wrote:

I truly believe that the reason you may see less and less human goalies is because of how much blame a goalie takes on and no matter what you try to say, its always going to be 5v1.

If you're on a good team, they'll never blame the goalie. Blaming the goalie is natural in drop-ins because in that mode - everyone thinks they're the best and they never make any mistakes (or 'the game' screwed them). So naturally, those drop-in types will blame the poor goalie. Personally, our goalie is amazing. In the rare moment he makes a mistake, he owns and it works to adjust. There are moments where the controls or an animation sequence tends to let him down, but making adjustments to adhere to what the game expects of you is part of the skill involved in this game, and he nails it. 

rsandersr47 wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the passing speed tops out, I also think the pass seems to cancel out if held too long. That being said, I personally dislike the icon passing. In the real NHL passes are missed a lot, I thought things seemed better when players were forced to aim their passes (that's a different argument though) I just think for icon vs manual passes there should be a tradeoff. (No chance of saucer with icon)

No, the pass will not cancel if held too long. Icon passing has a risk reward to it. Developing the habit of knowing your forwards are X, Y & (if the puck is controlled by D) and the defense are A & B (if puck controlled by a forward) is a skill that will help improve passing plays. Although I understand the argument they can be 'too' accurate, this is the reward for being well-versed in a gameplay feature designed to improve passing. 

I posted this in another thread yesterday:

The other cool thing is that when you hold RT after an Icon pass, the icon for the player you just passed to will be the same icon for the passer. This means on a 2-on-1 situation, you utilize the same icon for a quick back and forth: (notice how the Y icon quickly changes to the B icon once we start the back and forth:

The above 'can' be accomplished with manual passing, but sometimes the reception animation of manual passes can throw off the alignment and development of a 2-on-1. Icon passing ensures a pass is in-stride and on the tape of the receiver. That's a nice reward for developing the ability to utilize it.

rsandersr47 wrote:

I think humans could use a boost whether in stats or abilities to close the gap with cpu goalies. There was a time I felt the answer was to make cpu goalies worse to incentivize more humans.. I think the real move is to find more ways to improve humans. I think giving them a bit more attribute points or another ability would be cool. 

I agree. I'd like to see more forgiveness given to the human goalies to close the cap with CPU goalies. But then you risk stagnating the mode for more advanced goalies who like the requirements to get the perfect angles, cut off chances, etc. It's tough to balance but for the most part I think it's in an okay place right now.

rsandersr47 wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game is SO much better with human goalies. Let's do everything we can to incentivize people to play that position and for clubs to actually seek them out. 

100%%%%

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

I highly doubt it was removed because it caused another problem because it didn’t in years past.  

Just because the animation didn't cause a problem in previous years doesn't mean it wouldn't cause a problem now. There's a lot of under-the-hood logic being executed in any given moment. Sometimes, EA can introduce new logic that may not jive with animations already in the database. If an animation causes an issue with goalie logic, they'll just disable it until the animation can be re-tooled so as not to cause a crash, bug or glitch.

KidShowtime1867 wrote:

If you're on a good team, they'll never blame the goalie. Blaming the goalie is natural in drop-ins because in that mode - everyone thinks they're the best and they never make any mistakes (or 'the game' screwed them). So naturally, those drop-in types will blame the poor goalie. Personally, our goalie is amazing. In the rare moment he makes a mistake, he owns and it works to adjust. There are moments where the controls or an animation sequence tends to let him down, but making adjustments to adhere to what the game expects of you is part of the skill involved in this game, and he nails it. 

You are the exception to the rule. I play in league and the majority of people think they do no wrong and arent willing to converse with a goalie, much less appreciate their efforts.

FourZeroVI wrote:

I play in league and the majority of people think they do no wrong and arent willing to converse with a goalie, much less appreciate their efforts.

That's kind of the point I was making - a league like LG is only slightly different than drop-ins. Anonymous randoms for the most part who will be blamed for everything if they're not part of the in-crowd on their team.

Having a consistent team year over year builds relationships and if you have a good crew, people take responsibilities for their mistakes rather than try place blame elsewhere. Not to mention doing so is the only way to actually get any better. 

couture2fat2fly wrote:

creativity and hockey iq leads to nothing

I've shown countless clips of offensive and defensive creativity. Having a defeatist attitude like this will stagnate your skills. 

couture2fat2fly wrote:

Stayed for the absolutely masterful dissection of weak and obviously bad faith arguments.

Yea, providing actual in-game footage of the things I talk about is obviously bad-faith. How weak of me. 

KidShowtime1867 wrote:

That's kind of the point I was making - a league like LG is only slightly different than drop-ins. Anonymous randoms for the most part who will be blamed for everything if they're not part of the in-crowd on their team.

Having a consistent team year over year builds relationships and if you have a good crew, people take responsibilities for their mistakes rather than try place blame elsewhere. Not to mention doing so is the only way to actually get any better. 

Fair assessment, but that is my experience since I don't have a group like you speak of and I have only been a part of the community for a short time.

If it causes a problem with a new “logic” or whatever you want to call it then maybe they shouldn’t implement the new logic.  I can’t think of anything new in the game and playing goalie in particular that would negatively be affected by the “paddle down” tool enough to take priority over it to remove it.

There are tons of controls in the game that use a combination of two buttons/stick moves that haven’t affected anything that I can think of.  YET, a simple R2 (hold to butterfly) plus X (to paddle down) causes some big enough problem to remove it completely?!?!  

What problem could it possibly cause?

We don’t even have proof that it caused a problem as EA_Aljo has ONLY stated it was “intentional”.  EA’s “intention” is unknown and that’s why I’m asking.  I just want a straight answer and explanation of their “intention” from EA and/or passed along to EA_Aljo.  This is not an unreasonable request.  EA devs knows why they removed it.  It should be a quick and simple explanation unless they’re hiding their “intentions” for whatever reasons.  No need to ask why would EA hide their “intentions” either because the answer to that is easy.  If their “intentions” were because it caused a problem then a simple response stating that and that they’re trying to fix it and put “paddle down” back in the game that would suffice.