NitroXIIII just want to say people like you are great. Really love that you're digging into this stuff to give us more information.
IMO, "Ankle Breaker" is pretty much useless for in-game situations and should be retooled to work like a "Crosby badge." What I mean by this is that it should improve a player's ability to hard-cut 180 degrees in the opposite direction (a la Crosby famously breaking MacKinnon and others' ankles in the corners) while carrying the puck. It should allow a player to do this a few times in a row.
The following would require some work and alterations to the skating engine but might be interesting to read: you could make it so that these 180-degree cuts are an actual skill that players have an attribute for. With the existence of a stat like this, you could then have attribute thresholds where if a player has a low enough stat, repeated cuts back and forth would result in the player losing balance and stumbling (getting their ankles "broken"). The final result would be a player with the ankle breaker badge doing what the badge's name means: excellent cuts that cause the opposing player to stumble if they try to keep up.
I hope at least someone takes the time to read this!
There was a release back on the PS360 version where you could wipe out. It was not liked very much because people felt they lost edges on places they shouldn't and it punished defense mostly for defenders And it was never brought back again. So I'd assume that is why it never returned again.
I vaguely remember that! Was it NHL13? They did a NUMBER on the skating that year in general... it was pretty bad. Do you remember exactly what caused it and what the wipe-outs looked like? I've somehow completely erased memories of this feature from my old brain lol.
I feel like there could be a better way to implement it, though. Especially with the modern skating engine and animations. NBA2k does "ankle breakers" somewhat similarly except the badge itself causes the opposing defender to fall if they try to track your movements and you pull off a good enough dribble move.
EDIT: Yeah it WAS NHL13! I just scoured the annals of YouTube for footage of it and found this clip (good old Rammer on the sticks lol): NHL13 Losing an edge
After watching that clip, idk man... I feel like it would have been a good feature if tuned right. A player trying to cut backward after going max-speed and without doing a full-on hockey-stop cut (which I referred to previously in the Crosby example) SHOULD lose their edge if they're not an elite skater. This obviously would need to be tuned so that it ONLY happens during ridiculous top-speed turn attempts. A completely player-controlled situation.
That aside, what I was suggesting wasn't that. I was talking more about repeated cuts back and forth and back and forth.
I just don't think it's a feature the majority of the community would be wanting. The skating aspect is the most important part of the game I'd say. We don't even know what NHL 25 is bringing to the table in terms of movement either so I'm sure we shall find out more come the 27th and I can't wait to talk about it then. They do have that 1 clip where a defenseman kind of gets shook and aims to recover hard by swinging his stick over to get back into a better defensive position. None of the deke traits matter much until they refine/rebuild dekes in general. Most of the dekes are too much West - East, East- West side to side. They need to have more of angle to them where they would be going to the side and forward past a defender making them harder to hit on great timed dekes.
I'd just rework some of the traits to something like....
Puck on a string - stickhandling speed increased 15-20%
I'd rename Ankle Breaker to Quick Step - Dekes are 15-20% faster in motion and distance traveled.
I think it's BECAUSE the skating is the most important part of the game that it should have more in-depth nuances like what I suggested. I'm not in favor of making it more complicated controls-wise. I think differentiating players based on skating skill is important and I feel like the badges could have more of an impact in that regard rather than "+- a certain percentage of a specific attribute."
I've always been a proponent of adding more granular attributes to the game for this reason. For example: there should be a "backhand" attribute. More granularity provides for more nuance and player differentiation. Look to the NBA2k series for inspiration. While that series has blundered over the last couple of iterations (which sports game hasn't, am I right? =P), the number of attributes each player has is really well done.
Heck, 2k even has "player tendencies" for AI players. I'm not sure why EA Sports hasn't thought to implement this yet considering there are so many modes with AI players. Like, imagine a system where certain wingers (like Ovi or Stamkos) would opt to set up for a one-timer on their off-wing while others would look for cutting opportunities or what have you.
Ankle Breaker and Puck On a String animation comparisons.
Linked above is a quick short I made comparing two animations that you would expect to work with the respective abilities, based on the ability descriptions. A loose puck deke with and without Ankle Breaker, and a Toe Drag with and without Puck on a String.
For the comparisons, both builds have 90 deking, the clip on the top screen has no deking Superstar or Zone abilities, and the bottom screen has the Zone ability. I then overlay them as best as I could to show that the animations start and stop at the same time.
This isn't the only test I've done, it's just the only easy to consume comparison I've created, but I went through and counted frames for multiple different animations with multiple different deking attribute breakpoints and it was consistent that the only thing that seemed to affect animation speeds was the deking attribute itself, and not the X-Factors. With Puck on a String I tested just simply moving the puck from backhand to forehand, same frame values regardless of X-Factors.
My assumption for a while now about Ankle Breaker is that if it does have an affect, it only has an affect on CPU Players, but I'm not really sure how to test that. If that is the case, it being included in World of Chel is pointless for like 99% of scenarios. As for Puck on a String, I have no idea if this does anything online or offline, in both the online Free Skate and the offline Team Practice I saw zero difference in deking speeds with or without the abilities, this seems like it's probably a bug.
One more thing I noticed about another ability some people think is really good, Shutdown, is that it doesn't seem to behave how you'd expect based on the World of Chel Description. The World of Chel Description says it helps in 1-on-1 situations. However, if you go into the Create-a-Player it says it helps defend rush chances. I tested in Free Skate and in the Pro Am (I haven't tested this in actual online games yet), but it seems how it works is that Shutdown will pretty much always activate if the puck is NOT in your Defensive Zone. Once the puck is carried into your Defensive Zone, it will continue to activate for a few seconds, regardless of how many players are near you or in your own zone, but after that few seconds pass, it doesn't seem to activate again until the puck is cleared. This leads me to think it was designed with the Create-a-player description in mind, to defend rush chances. If that's the case, a simple update of the description in World of Chel would at least fix any confusion.
Anyway, hope this helps shed some light on some things that I think might be bugs that could have gone under the radar and can lead to some tweaks and confirmation that abilities are at least helping in some way/doing something akin to what their description says.
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want to say people like you are great. Really love that you're digging into this stuff to give us more information.
IMO, \"Ankle Breaker\" is pretty much useless for in-game situations and should be retooled to work like a \"Crosby badge.\" What I mean by this is that it should improve a player's ability to hard-cut 180 degrees in the opposite direction (a la Crosby famously breaking MacKinnon and others' ankles in the corners) while carrying the puck. It should allow a player to do this a few times in a row.
The following would require some work and alterations to the skating engine but might be interesting to read: you could make it so that these 180-degree cuts are an actual skill that players have an attribute for. With the existence of a stat like this, you could then have attribute thresholds where if a player has a low enough stat, repeated cuts back and forth would result in the player losing balance and stumbling (getting their ankles \"broken\"). The final result would be a player with the ankle breaker badge doing what the badge's name means: excellent cuts that cause the opposing player to stumble if they try to keep up.
I hope at least someone takes the time to read this!
","body@stringLength":"1440","rawBody":"IMO, \"Ankle Breaker\" is pretty much useless for in-game situations and should be retooled to work like a \"Crosby badge.\" What I mean by this is that it should improve a player's ability to hard-cut 180 degrees in the opposite direction (a la Crosby famously breaking MacKinnon and others' ankles in the corners) while carrying the puck. It should allow a player to do this a few times in a row.
The following would require some work and alterations to the skating engine but might be interesting to read: you could make it so that these 180-degree cuts are an actual skill that players have an attribute for. With the existence of a stat like this, you could then have attribute thresholds where if a player has a low enough stat, repeated cuts back and forth would result in the player losing balance and stumbling (getting their ankles \"broken\"). The final result would be a player with the ankle breaker badge doing what the badge's name means: excellent cuts that cause the opposing player to stumble if they try to keep up.
I hope at least someone takes the time to read this!
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More"},"localOverride":false},"ModerationData:moderation_data:4966197":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:4966197","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:4966197":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","uid":4966197,"id":"message:4966197","revisionNum":2,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:252078"},"readOnly":false,"repliesCount":2,"depth":3,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:nhl-25-general-discussion-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:4966192"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:4964825"},"subject":"Re: Some \"good\" X-Factors do literally nothing. (Proof)","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:4966197"},"body":"I vaguely remember that! Was it NHL13? They did a NUMBER on the skating that year in general... it was pretty bad. Do you remember exactly what caused it and what the wipe-outs looked like? I've somehow completely erased memories of this feature from my old brain lol.
I feel like there could be a better way to implement it, though. Especially with the modern skating engine and animations. NBA2k does \"ankle breakers\" somewhat similarly except the badge itself causes the opposing defender to fall if they try to track your movements and you pull off a good enough dribble move.
EDIT: Yeah it WAS NHL13! I just scoured the annals of YouTube for footage of it and found this clip (good old Rammer on the sticks lol): NHL13 Losing an edge
After watching that clip, idk man... I feel like it would have been a good feature if tuned right. A player trying to cut backward after going max-speed and without doing a full-on hockey-stop cut (which I referred to previously in the Crosby example) SHOULD lose their edge if they're not an elite skater. This obviously would need to be tuned so that it ONLY happens during ridiculous top-speed turn attempts. A completely player-controlled situation.
That aside, what I was suggesting wasn't that. I was talking more about repeated cuts back and forth and back and forth.
","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2024-09-15T01:07:55.840-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2024-09-15T01:24:15.543-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":58},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:nhl-25-en/category:nhl-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:nhl-25-general-discussion-en/message:4964825/message:4966197","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuM3wyLjF8aXwzfDM5OjF8aW50LDQ5NjYyMDUsNDk2NjIwNQ","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:4966205"}}]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:4966205":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:4966205","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:4966205":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","uid":4966205,"id":"message:4966205","revisionNum":1,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:228265"},"readOnly":false,"repliesCount":1,"depth":4,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:nhl-25-general-discussion-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:4966197"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:4964825"},"subject":"Re: Some \"good\" X-Factors do literally nothing. (Proof)","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:4966205"},"body":"I just don't think it's a feature the majority of the community would be wanting. The skating aspect is the most important part of the game I'd say. We don't even know what NHL 25 is bringing to the table in terms of movement either so I'm sure we shall find out more come the 27th and I can't wait to talk about it then. They do have that 1 clip where a defenseman kind of gets shook and aims to recover hard by swinging his stick over to get back into a better defensive position. None of the deke traits matter much until they refine/rebuild dekes in general. Most of the dekes are too much West - East, East- West side to side. They need to have more of angle to them where they would be going to the side and forward past a defender making them harder to hit on great timed dekes.
I'd just rework some of the traits to something like....
Puck on a string - stickhandling speed increased 15-20%
I'd rename Ankle Breaker to Quick Step - Dekes are 15-20% faster in motion and distance traveled.
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I've always been a proponent of adding more granular attributes to the game for this reason. For example: there should be a \"backhand\" attribute. More granularity provides for more nuance and player differentiation. Look to the NBA2k series for inspiration. While that series has blundered over the last couple of iterations (which sports game hasn't, am I right? =P), the number of attributes each player has is really well done.
Heck, 2k even has \"player tendencies\" for AI players. I'm not sure why EA Sports hasn't thought to implement this yet considering there are so many modes with AI players. Like, imagine a system where certain wingers (like Ovi or Stamkos) would opt to set up for a one-timer on their off-wing while others would look for cutting opportunities or what have you.
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