Forum Discussion
Hey there. Thanks for all the feedback. It's appreciated. We are currently looking at the defensive and offensive issues that have been reported. However, defense is far from impossible. I understand it's taking time to adapt to the changes. Personally, I only play defense in WoC. Poke checks were a challenge at first, but they've been a lot better since I started being more precise with my aim. The problem seems to be when you're in very close. Poking when having a good gap hasn't been difficult. My club started off on a losing streak, but has turned that around. It's unfortunate to see you all give up so soon. Hopefully, you'll give it another shot. Especially since it's possible there will be changes that help out defense.
Just gonna start off by saying that my 2 friends and i have played every single year of EASHL since 2010.
This is how my crew is. We've lost a couple over the years, but 4 of us are still around. Not playing as much as we used to since most now have families and careers that don't let them play all night like before. I only say this because you don't need to be a kid playing for 100s of hours a week to be competitive.
Again, thanks for contributing here. The constructive feedback is absolutely appreciated.
- rybell726 days agoSeasoned Newcomer
I like how the Community Manager response here is "politely...skill issue." Like come on man, WoC is broken. Every team plays tiny guys with 97/97 speed/acceleration with wheels and/or edges and truculence. I understand trying to buff checking to counterbalance the speed/agility, but it's so out of whack now. Beefing up your player with additional size/strength against these tiny guys with truculence also makes no difference b/c the checking is so broken a 5'8" 160lb max speed sniper can also just flatten everybody.
No variety to builds, and no chance to even try out any of the new zone abilities, b/c you simply have to have wheels/edges to have a chance. The unintended consequence of allowing every build to have every perk is that now basically everyone plays the same builds, you only see like 2-3 types of builds all night. Between that and last year's introduction of pre-builds that are just...better than any build you can make (what kind of game design is that?), it's killed what made the game fun, which was playing with, and playing against, a variety of different builds game to game.
"Just stick with it you'll get better" is not a helpful response when the complaint is that every team plays the same way, every game plays the same way, and it's not fun. Logging on to play breakaway simulator for 4 hours is not fun. My team all maxed out our speed/acceleration and now our games ARE competitive, but it's not fun! Get rid of wheels and edges (if everyone has them, then what's the point?), re-balance the hidden stats (we know they're in there!) to penalize players that max out their speed/accel - they should not be able the fastest/most agile guys on the ice and simultaneously be able to take/dish out huge hits. The dynamism was what made the game fun, and this year it's been completely flattened. Shame b/c the last couple years of chel were a lot of fun, last year in particular was awesome (before it was overrun with pre-builds).- MostlyHubris26 days agoNew Adventurer
The disparity has been there for years, and frankly I don't envy the developers trying to appease a worldwide fan base who all have different ideas of what hockey means.
Back in the day, people were upset that smaller guys couldn't hit. Cal Clutterbuck and Nik Kronwall (both notoriously big hitters at the time) are 5'11, you could give them 99 Checking and they couldn't knock a 200 lb guy off the puck in a hundred tries. They revamped the hitting engine. That was probably NHL 14, I distinctly remember "The Boys are Back" in the trailer with a bunch of big hits. They made it so speed mattered and the direction you were facing mattered. I thought it felt all right, but people complained, so they dialed it back, then dialed it back up when people complained, then... you get the picture. A tuner set only lasts until the no-lifers find the exploit, and then it all starts again.
I'm not saying I disagree. I find the speed and acceleration attributes annoying to begin with. There's nobody with "80 speed" playing in the NHL and nobody with "99 speed" is breaknecking up and and down the ice at top speed for 60 minutes. There's a reason the fastest skater most years is some guy you never heard of like Miles Wood or Darren Helm. Speed matters, but very few professional skaters are creating a zone's worth in separation in 1.5 seconds from a standstill. If every player in the game can be Connor McDavid, who on earth would ever choose to be Pat Maroon? I feel like speed and acceleration need to be tuned on a smaller scale, and like X-factors that create such a huge advantage that they are "must haves" don't really have a place in the game.
It's hard to be annoying in NHL 26 if you don't have the puck. Defenseman can't be relentless because you'll just get beat backdoor with a blind pass made with 100% accuracy if you don't leave yourself an out. Same deal with a defensive forward build like a TWF (eh) or a Grinder, which has been obliterated and is essentially useless. When I think of a Grinder I think of a guy like Kris Draper. Not a shred of natural talent in his body, just every shift out there being a huge pest to the other team with nothing but pure effort. You could not get rid of that guy, and if you tried he'd just work harder. Other teams hated playing against that line because you didn't have time to think, you'd just get hit or hacked or elbowed in every corner until you just wanted to get off the ice. He was proof that you could overcome skill with effort. That's why they call it grinding. The Grinder in EANHL at this point is just an unthugged enforcer with no niche. You add in the fact that "skill" (intangible) is tied up in numbers and all you have to do is skate towards the net and shoot to get rewarded on offense, it's in a bad spot.
- EA_Aljo26 days ago
Community Manager
I like how the Community Manager response here is "politely...skill issue." Like come on man, WoC is broken. Every team plays tiny guys with 97/97 speed/acceleration with wheels and/or edges and truculence. I understand trying to buff checking to counterbalance the speed/agility, but it's so out of whack now. Beefing up your player with additional size/strength against these tiny guys with truculence also makes no difference b/c the checking is so broken a 5'8" 160lb max speed sniper can also just flatten everybody.
My defender is 6'1", 150lbs. I use All-Star Stick 'em up, Wheels and Elite Edges. There are definitely times I get beat due to going up against speedy players. Most of the time, I'm paying attention to the positioning of the other team so I can put myself in better position to stop them. I fully agree that the focus on speed needs to come down. I'm not a fan of being able to have 97 speed/accel. Hopefully, we'll see that tuned better. Regardless, you significantly raise your chances of defending them by playing more conservative defense. It's also a team effort. In many cases, my teammates have a strong forecheck so they stop the other team's breakout before it happens. If I see one developing though, I'm dropping back to defend it.
I also have had no problem with the pre-builds. At the end of the day, the attributes don't mean anything unless the player using them has the skill to do so. The chances of someone unskilled suddenly becoming unstoppable is probably not going to happen. So, someone with that skill can most likely take almost any build and still be competitive.
I also agree that you're required to use Wheels and Elite Edges to keep up. I'd love to see this changed so I can use other abilities. The current meta pretty much requires me to use these. This is why it's not breakaway after breakaway for me. I also typically have a good D partner to help out. I know some of you are playing 2s and 3s with AI defenders.
I know people hate to be called out on skill. I'm most definitely not saying this is entirely a skill issue. Speed is too high. Truculence is ridiculous. I'd love to see changes be made. However, skill still plays a part. Teams aren't losing solely due to pre-builds and OP abilities. Have you tried running the same builds to see if you start getting more wins? You also have to consider team chemistry. People put so much reliance on individual abilities when this is a team sport. If you're not supporting each other, your opponents are going to find it a lot easier to breakout, intercept passes, anticipate your moves, etc. So, yes, skill definitely plays a role because no matter how strong your abilities are, without knowing how to use them and if a team isn't working together well, you're not going to be as successful.
- MostlyHubris26 days agoNew Adventurer
While I fully agree skill is important and that a skill gap in online gaming is really mandatory (otherwise there's not much dynamic gameplay happening), I don't know that I agree that teams aren't losing solely due to OP abilities. I would argue that a skilled, experienced team can absolutely lose games to average to bad players being juiced up with Wheels, EE, Truculence and an absolutely absurd window for late hits. Pretty frequently I make my breakout pass, see the hit coming, take steps to avoid it, and as a result I get thugged a full two to three seconds later than the guy initially tried to hit me, and there's still no call. Even if I give up an X-factor slot for a negatory one (by that I mean something like Warrior which has no active effect but simply lessens the harmful effects of another X-factor), being chased for an extra three seconds and then having to get up from a late hit for another three to five seconds is way, way more than enough time for a mid team to force/get a turnover and score a 2-on-1 goal they earned through exploiting. When you give those tools to a team that KNOWS they're exploiting, yikes. You're going to have a bad time.
- KidShowtime186726 days agoHero
EA_Aljo wrote:
Poke checks were a challenge at first, but they've been a lot better since I started being more precise with my aim. The problem seems to be when you're in very close. Poking when having a good gap hasn't been difficult.
Can you elaborate on how you're aiming your poke checks? There seems to be a big change to the simple poke (hitting R1). Previously, it would aim to the puck's location on the frame the poke check was initiated. Meaning, if the puck carrier moved the puck at the next frame, by the time the poke check arrives at the puck - it's position has moved - resulting in a miss. More often than not, however, most players don't have the twitch skill to react in time, so poke checks were largely successful.
It appears to me, since the X-Factor revamp, the poke check ability seemingly has a randomized error state where the poke checks will simply avoid the puck altogether and miss wildly despite the puck carrier not moving the puck via stick handling at all. This is the major change that I think is contributing to the poke check 'issue' people are describing.
Personally, I've found the same as you: Poke checks require better gap coverage and they will no longer work in close like they used to. once you make this adjustment, you seem to be able to get better success. Your 'aim' comment makes me think there's something else that's been added to the mechanic that maybe hasn't been properly communicated to the player-base.
EA_Aljo wrote:
My club started off on a losing streak, but has turned that around.
Exact same here. We were very discouraged off the bat but once those of us who play D finally started finding the groove with the poke check and X-Factor combinations that suit our playstyles, we've been finding more success.
I think the expectation of players to have the same skill level and dominance that they did in previous years runs contrary to the same expectations of a new game every year. They clamour for 'new' gameplay elements, and then rage about not being copletely adept at them on day 1.
All that being said, I think Poke Check without X-Factors needs a tiny bump in its ability to disrupt puck possession.
rybell7 wrote:
I like how the Community Manager response here is "politely...skill issue."
Despite the needed bump like I mentioned, I still think there is a skill issue here that the community hasn't caught up to yet. There's been a change in how EA intends the poke check to work but they haven't clearly communicated that by way of a video from the studio showcasing exactly how they want us to execute this. It seems we're left to discover this on our own.
rybell7 wrote:
I understand trying to buff checking to counterbalance the speed/agility, but it's so out of whack now.
You're right. It seems they re-introduced tractor beam hitting and removed any speed penalties for missing a hit as some kind of response to the waterbugs in WoC. But those same waterbugs can apply truculence and use the tractor beam hitting to not only keep opponents down for an unrealistic amount of time but use their insane speed/accel to speed by downed players. It's definitely out of whack.
rybell7 wrote:
"Just stick with it you'll get better" is not a helpful response when the complaint is that every team plays the same way, every game plays the same way, and it's not fun. Logging on to play breakaway simulator for 4 hours is not fun.
I think both can be true: Poke checks need a buff and players need to stick with the underlying changes, learn them, adapt and they will get better.
If you're giving up breakaways all game long, your defenders are doing something terribly wrong.
rybell7 wrote:
My team all maxed out our speed/acceleration and now our games ARE competitive,
Our team adjusted by applying truculence. Defence has truculence, stick em up and quick pick. No need for wheels if you're observing turnovers and possession changes intently rather than looking for ways to jump up into the play on every zone possession.
- EA_Aljo26 days ago
Community Manager
Can you elaborate on how you're aiming your poke checks? There seems to be a big change to the simple poke (hitting R1). Previously, it would aim to the puck's location on the frame the poke check was initiated. Meaning, if the puck carrier moved the puck at the next frame, by the time the poke check arrives at the puck - it's position has moved - resulting in a miss. More often than not, however, most players don't have the twitch skill to react in time, so poke checks were largely successful.
I'm most often using DSS and trying to cut off their passing lane. I can often get in close enough to get a poke in so I wait for that opportunity and take it. In the case I'm just making a quick poke without using DSS, I'm just waiting for a clean path to the puck. Mostly, from the front. I'm still able to poke from the sides. I'm just waiting for the right moment. And it's not that I never miss. I'm not saying every poke is successful. I miss plenty of them, but I also connect on them a lot better than when the game first launched. I captured some clips last night, but for some reason they aren't showing up. Hopefully, they will and I can show it.
Nothing changed with the auto-aim of pokes. It's still aimed at the location of the puck on the frame the poke was triggered.
It appears to me, since the X-Factor revamp, the poke check ability seemingly has a randomized error state where the poke checks will simply avoid the puck altogether and miss wildly despite the puck carrier not moving the puck via stick handling at all. This is the major change that I think is contributing to the poke check 'issue' people are describing.
I'm using Stick 'em up. That most likely is helping my pokes. I switched to this from Quick Pick. But, I'm also noticing I'm better at them in HUT. My team is pretty low rated as well so I don't think it has to do with inflated abilities. It is against the computer though and they can be pretty easy to separate from the puck.
Pokes are pretty basic. Like we both said, pokes go to where the puck is. It's not a random fail. There's a lot going on with various XFs and ability scores though. And, pokes are being investigated. It's also possible the puck is being picked up too easily. I know that's being looked into as well. That makes it also seem like pokes aren't working. I'm just making more of an effort to get a really solid poke so there's more separation. Again, Stick 'em up may have something to do with that.Personally, I've found the same as you: Poke checks require better gap coverage and they will no longer work in close like they used to. once you make this adjustment, you seem to be able to get better success. Your 'aim' comment makes me think there's something else that's been added to the mechanic that maybe hasn't been properly communicated to the player-base.
My aim comment was more about using DSS. I use it a lot. Probably almost as much as a regular poke.
I think the expectation of players to have the same skill level and dominance that they did in previous years runs contrary to the same expectations of a new game every year. They clamour for 'new' gameplay elements, and then rage about not being copletely adept at them on day 1.
Agreed. If we truly copied and pasted the game, you should still have the same level of dominance. Every year we see this. Complaints about struggling when they were previously in D1. Each year, changes are made and we all need to adapt. My club has had the same issue in the past. The first couple of weeks are rough, then we find our groove.
- Ampereturn26 days agoSeasoned Hotshot
I completely agree. As a defenseman, I rely on truculence, stick 'em up, and quick pick. There's no need for wheels—you just have to be patient and read the game well. I'm effective with my poke checks, but having an X-factor is definitely crucial. You don't always have to poke the puck off the opponent's stick. Sometimes, simply blocking their stick with yours dislodges the puck automatically. What I would like to see in the game is better reaction time for D to intercept passes in front of the net. I often find myself laughing when I'm covering the same spot as the opponent—I'm really close to them, yet my player refuses to even move the stick to attempt an interception and puck is going through me. Reaction time should be better at least for DD.
- KidShowtime186726 days agoHero
Ampereturn wrote:
What I would like to see in the game is better reaction time for D to intercept passes in front of the net. I often find myself laughing when I'm covering the same spot as the opponent—I'm really close to them, yet my player refuses to even move the stick to attempt an interception and puck is going through me. Reaction time should be better at least for DD.
100% this.
There seems to have been an increase to player model reaction time across the board, with X-Factor abilities seemingly lowering this threshold to be seen as more effective.
It's especially glaring in the scenario you outlined (a defender in good position with good view of incoming puck) but also in offensive moments when a player is right in front of the net but fails to react to a pass.
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