Re: Community Discussion On Chipping and Putting

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@-Roasted513- wrote:
@davefv92pitching and chipping should not be allowed on the greens at all, ever... as for putting, its not that hard to figure out, i have ZERO putting skill and still light up the leaderboards... learn to putt!

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First rule of PGA Tour GOLF is Etiquette there is no rule that says you have to use a putter on the greens. So you are harassing people that chose not too. Personally I'm better putting than pitching and chipping which is not saying much. IMHO

 @-Roasted513-  @davefv92 

Great topic to chat about.

I play a lot of online myself and while I don't see a ton of golfers chipping on the green on a regular basis I do see some situations where it makes more sense to chip if you're convinced you don't have a shot to sink the putt, such as a hill with really steep downslope break. 

You're allowed to chip on the green in the PGA Tour and the pros do it every so often. In a lot of the videos they opted to either chip it instead of making a long putt or had chip because the line to the hole was obstructed. Tried to chip on the green yesterday at the golf course for kicks after seeing this post and watching the pros do it. Let's just say....I'll be leaving that to the pros lol.

Some questions for you:

• Are you all talking about the chips from long distances on the green or when they are on the fringe close to the hole? 
• If the ability to chip from the green was removed, do you think the community would feel it doesn't represent authentic PGA Tour rules with those limitations?
• Instead of removing the ability to chip and help encourage more golfers to putt, should chip accuracy from the green be more inconsistent?
• Lastly, any tips from the community on how to be a better putter by sharing any screenshots or videos of your best shots and break down how you set up your putts?

Thank you for creating this discussion. Looking forward to your thoughts and feedback!

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@davefv92 wrote:
@EA_Blueberry there are times you need to use a chip or pitch on a green and those are ok, and few and far between. if there is no obstruction from your lie to the hole it should always be putted.
putting is a big part of this game and should be learned by all.

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@davefv92 

Sounds like we're on the same page. There's the old saying, "Drives for show, putts for dough." The putts is where you separate yourself from the rest of the leaderboard. 

Let's tee off some ideas here.

Suppose you were in the position to make changes to the game around this. What would you do? I for one, would love an online competitive mode where you only putt. All players start on the green at the same spot. Putts can range from uphill, downhill, slight breaks, and very drastic breaks. Could be fun to have a putting leaderboard and if enough golfers play that it could help encourage them to putt more from the green at long distances in the regular games? 

Whatever you do with this, can you at least leave career mode well alone?

Rather than thinking in terms of the whole game and that one size should fit all and that every situation should be the same, please instead at least pause and think of those who can't fully enjoy everything due to disability, and don't screw us over, please. 

One way to think over the suggestion that everybody should be born an expert at putting, go play for a few days with one eye covered, and then tell me how we should all be experts if we have any kind of vision issues. 

I play the game with putts as best I can, but when you lack depth perception, it can be a challenge to say the least. I know my limitations, and avoid online stuff 99% of the time, except for the free 4 hole arcade when that comes up, because between the lack of depth perception, and the muscle issues that mean I can't use a gamepad, most content is locked out of reach anyway... So please, with that in mind, leave career mode as is. 

Not everybody can be an elite gamer... 

I say leave this game as it is also, just because I use a putter on the green does not mean I have anything against others that do not

maybe the best thing is for people to remember this is a game and not take it or make it so serious, relax and have fun.

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@Noya_Wesa wrote:

Whatever you do with this, can you at least leave career mode well alone?

Rather than thinking in terms of the whole game and that one size should fit all and that every situation should be the same, please instead at least pause and think of those who can't fully enjoy everything due to disability, and don't screw us over, please. 

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Thank you for jumping in with your thoughts and perspective with challenges that can come from putting due to disability @Noya_Wesa. I searched our PGA Tour boards for a discussion around putting and Accessibility and didn't see anything what you describe brought up. These conversations are important to EA as we do try our best to champion ways to make the games as accessible as we can to everyone. It does require some feedback from the community to get a better understanding on how the teams should look at designs in the future. If you're able to craft up a post with some details on this in these forums we'll try our best to pass it along. We can't make any guarantees on the submissions here but as Forum Community Managers we're here to champion for the Community and pass along requests. 

It sounds like @-Roasted513- is more concerned about the online competitive modes when there are rewards at stake. If anyone here has great tips on how to set up a consistently great lag putt I'm sure we can all benefit from it.

Sometimes all you need are those 1 or 2 tips you never really think about that drastically improve your game. 

Anyone want to chip in with advice on putting?

As long as there is no obstruction in the way, you should be forced to putt 

Chipping on the greens shouldn’t be allowed. Period

Whilst we’re here please fix the situations where the ball goes “over the hole” . I’ve had so many putts that either should have lipped out/in

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@agentputt wrote:

As long as there is no obstruction in the way, you should be forced to putt 

Chipping on the greens shouldn’t be allowed. Period

Whilst we’re here please fix the situations where the ball goes “over the hole” . I’ve had so many putts that either should have lipped out/in

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A couple of questions, not to be argumentative, but simply to try and understand the lines of thoughts in this thread and others. Anybody can feel free to pitch in, because I genuinely do want to try and understand from the point of view of others. 

As I've already declared in a post above, I don't (mostly can't) play the online competitive stuff as I'm limited to keyboard and 3 click style, so it's career mode and stroke play for me, and therefore I probably don't understand what many of you might consider important re the putting being 'enforced' on the green.

(Regarding competitive, I play the 4 hole arcade here and there, but nothing more. Yesterday I managed a whopping 2 under, yay me, lol.) 

My major concern here is that whatever happens to one part of the game, may be brought into other parts. I've found a relaxing game that I can play semi-comfortably, and I want to be able to keep playing. I'll admit to having the selfish line of thought, that as long as they leave career mode alone other than to fix the bugs, I'll be happy enough.   

So if career was left as is, for the current discussion, that makes me no more the interested observer in truth, if it is about the online game. I do like to ask questions, and try to understand though...

Which leads me to ask, if people do something other than pull out the putter on the green, how does it affect you or others? Is it causing a disadvantage to you or others that people who might otherwise not play, happen to be here but they play differently? 

I get it if there's a very good reason to weaken it in the weekly or monthly non-arcade stuff, if it gives an unfair advantage somehow, but even then, if it's allowed under PGA style play, wouldn't it be better to leave it in the game? Make it less accurate or whatever, to reflect more of the reality of how things might be when a pro-golfer makes a similar shot by all means, but I don't understand the need to remove things simply to limit any other players options. 

In my case, I always try to stick with the attitude of disability doesn't have to mean total inability, so I normally I do try to putt, but I will occasionally pitch if it's one of those long shots on a fast green with lots of direction changes or bumps, where there are 20 yards or more to cover. At least a pitch shot gets me somewhere close to the hole in those situations. (Also, that was something that I picked up on when doing the challenges, so it's very much a condoned method of play.) 

My preference is to land slightly short of the green, rather than pitching while on the green though, as at least then I have the full range of short game shots to get me much closer to the hole and hold the green, so I can try and putt in. Sometimes a mis-aim occurs though, and a ball rolls on to the green. That's time to pitch for me, or I can watch yet another multiple bogey get added to the stats. 

Why can't others be allowed to play their own style, so long as it's not an illegitimate method under the PGA rules? 

When I look at things overall, does it seem that some people want the game making harder? I would guess so, by the number of limit/remove or 'make it harder' type comments that are seen over one thing or another, but in some cases, it feels that what is being called for is that the game should become an elitist sim players club, whether intentionally or not... ☹️ 

Why is the chipping attribute part of the putting skills ?

Surely you’d think it would be part of short game?

I think the simple answer is to just make better approach shots . No one would be worrying about chipping from anywhere on the green if they hit a better approach shot. Landing on a sloped green is just part of the game and so if everyone is allowed to chip on the green….everyone will just forget about putting in general in any type of competition. Ea, don’t forget that players use legal exploits like this to get ahead of everyone else . I’m not saying anyone here does that, but we all know the reality of gaming.   

"Ea, don’t forget that players use legal exploits like this to get ahead of everyone else" It's only an exploit if there using it to get around the rules. There are no rules saying you cant chip on the green. If you don't like it because is somebody is chipping on the green don't play them or better yet chip with them. See if it bug's them?

I found out you could chip on greens by reading this thread!! Lol 

I only play in Career mode and I am actually happy to know that some of the impossible putts I have faced that turned into three or four putt holes because of that can be avoided.  It actually came up in the first round I played after this revelation. 

I have no opinion on the Online Tournaments but please don’t take this out of Career mode or other solo play modes if possible. 

 @ couturemk so you’re telling me that you’re defending this because it makes it easier for you to play the game as unintended. Why even have a putter instead of just a magical chipping club?   I’m sure when racing became a thing, everyone would just run across the track and say they won by crossing the finish line 1st? I think you see my point here . No offense, but allowing everyone to chip and get higher tournaments scores than everyone else that actually uses a putter isn’t good for a video game .  After all this is a video game forum 

For anybody who considers this an exploit, you do realise it's actually condoned as a form of play during the challenges, right? 

Have a look at the caddie tip for the challenge: Spotlights / EA / Path of Least Resistance. 

It's got very few and far between uses, even for myself with my limited depth perception, but it is legitimate as a form of play.

It's something to pull out of the bag when facing a long distance across a long fast undulating green after the shot dispersion decides to have its fun... Why land a multiple bogey, when I can still save par? 

Also, interesting point to note, there is no rule in R&A, PGA / LPGA etc (which are what this game is modelled on after-all) that prevents the use of clubs other than a putter on the green. Local clubs can make their own code of conduct, but under PGA rules, there is no reason not to chip or pitch. 

@Noya_WesaI’m trying to edit my post while you’ve already responded and I’m sorry for that I should just be working now tbough . Anyway, my point wasn’t to insult you or anyone else I’m just saying that I’m not sure they intended for us to avoid the horrendous greens by chipping.  

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@Miss_Lindaa wrote:
@Noya_WesaI’m not critical of the shot being used in sp formats (most of this game) , but my point is valid for anyone that does the tournaments. Also I’m well aware of irl golf rules and etiquette but my point is that it’s a videogame . That said.. if it’s the only way to get a higher score in tournaments, everyone will do it. An example is many $/xp exploits in other online games where if it’s not totally forbidden… everyone will use the method . I think that because players will now use it to get around tough putting, is exactly why it should be limited to sp only or at least from the fringe only . Remember my point in this isn’t really a discussion about whether or not there’s a specific professional rule prohibiting it or not , it’s about ruining fairness to others if others “exploit” the rules to get an advantage. I don’t mind 2 or 3 putting if it’s the way the game was intended to be played .

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Firstly, might I say thank you for welcoming civilised discussion on it... 🙂 

I must confess that tournament play isn't something that I partake of, other than when the 4 hole arcade is on the daily freebie. I have no idea of the level of competition, so please understand that I am speaking mostly as an interested outside when it comes to that part of the game. I was looking at purely a technical and 'by the book' kind of stance, and I am genuinely interested in understanding why it would be viewed as exploitative. 

With the rules of golf allowing it, and with the game actually suggesting it as a form of play, I would have thought it would be welcomed. 

I guess there's aspects to the tournament play that I am missing, so I am more than welcome to being educated about the reasons.

It might be lessons that I could pass on to others, after the fact, you know? 

I think I spend too much time watching the 'wow' moments of golf, and not enough time considering how it might work out in online play... 

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@EA_Blueberry wrote:

It sounds like @-Roasted513- is more concerned about the online competitive modes when there are rewards at stake. If anyone here has great tips on how to set up a consistently great lag putt I'm sure we can all benefit from it.

Sometimes all you need are those 1 or 2 tips you never really think about that drastically improve your game. 

Anyone want to chip in with advice on putting?

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I’m generally really enjoying the game after about 130 hrs or so, now playing tour mode and doing ok w that. With regards to chipping on green, if rules allow it then ok w me. Finally enough practice at chipping off the green to find it useful…

But this is about the process I use for longer putts. On tour mode, no preview line so its reading the green and developing a “feel” for it. The close green level view was a bit hard to figure as you really can’t see much depth with it, but it is useful.

With this method i’m pretty much always within 1-2 feet on long putts, sometimes inches

The most important is the distance calc, which is 1.5 feet for every inch uphill height, and 1 foot for every inch downward at the hole - varies with green speed, especailly downhill so adjust as the round progresses. Also note - when height shifts from inches to feet and going uphill, 1 foot can be between 12 and 23 inches, then it changes to 2 feet, so you’ll have to estimate a bit

To read the green, you will need a feel for how much break there is on a 6-7 foot put with even speed of the beads. This does mean some practice or time on course. Learn the amount of break for the various bead speeds.

To make longer lag putt (or sink it), especially with varying break, use the close cam, and start at the hole and, at the hole, add some break based on the bead speed you’ve learned in the previous step. 

Move the camera back towards you and every 3-4 grids note the change in speed of the beads - same, no change, faster add a bit more break, slower take some back.  If the beads change direction start adding in opposite break. When the cam is at the golfer, reset the distance back to the amount calculated, address the ball and give it a look - if it feels off give it a tweak. After a while that will improve as you play more.

Make the stroke - as long as you’re consistent, a bit over or under is ok and you can adjust for it - straight is important.

On sim mode, do the same, but use the tilt and color of the lines as your guide. The putt elevation graph lower right is your only height gauge - close putts its about 3 feet, longer up to 5 feet. 

For putting I think the changes to the hole physics have been a bit challenging - not sure its perfect yet. But overall putting for me feels pretty “real” and similar to what I see the pros doing on TV - some days I’m hot other days not so much

Hope this helps - 

pitch and chip on greens, no.  i dont care how far away you are, 100 feet, thats your own fault to begin with.

learn to putt, its not that hard, plus there are putting challenges people can do to help learn the basics

Yes it will always be the players own fault when they end up in really bad lie, right, because nobody would ever have a ball land badly due to random dispersion issues in the game of course... 

And if you ever bothered to read through the responses properly, you'd have maybe noticed that your elitist 'learn to play / get good' lines cannot always be applied.