Forum Discussion

yegsten's avatar
3 years ago

PvZ 3 Limited Test Feedback

Now that a new beta has been released, I thought I'd provide my two cents on how I think this game is coming along.

Hand holding tutorials

Currently I believe that the only positive change between this new version and the alpha tests pre-2020 is the art style, removal of levelling and changing to landscape. Starting over and changing how the game would fundamentally play was completely unnecessary as the pre-2020 version was still underwhelming, but could easily have been re-tooled into a pretty good game. Currently my gripes with the modern pvz3 is that currently all the strategy and brain work into beating a level has been completely removed. The game holds your hand ridiculously tight for pretty much the whole beta, explaining things that player's could find out easily by themselves. The worst example of this is an entire level completely dedicated to telling you that "more sunflowers = more sun". New plants were also introduced  through these tutorials, instead of giving the player the option to read up on the plants through the almanac. It is unnecessary to explain what a plant does through a level tutorial when on the menu before you play a level, tapping a seed packet will give you the exact same information as 2-3 "tutorial" levels. More is told than there is shown, which removes the sandbox-like feeling the original game has where you essentially discover the plant's strengths and weaknesses through gameplay and the almanac. These tutorial levels are also very very short, with some having less than 10 zombies, which baffles me even further as to why these levels would exist in the first place. Levels are also generally too short, with a "plant now think later" sort of mentality.

Choose your plants

Another massive blow to player choice is the removal of choosing plants, having pre-picked plants used to be a level gimmick used in the previous games but now it is the only way of bringing plants into a level. The pre-2020 pvz3 ability to create your own plant team allowed for more player experimentation and engagement, I would constantly try different team layouts depending on which zombies were found in the level. (A quick side tangent but being able to see which zombies were in the upcoming level with the option to change your team to adapt to the zombie selection was absolutely fantastic, I hope it makes its way back into this new re-imagining.) When choosing these teams, the way the menu's were laid out would also let you easily compare plant stats and read up about them, finding out which zombie types they were powerful or weak against etc. Currently in this beta there is no need for such a feature, as the levels seem to be vary bare-bones in terms of plant and zombie variety. For a game that is trying to be more strategy based, there is very minimal strategy.

Progression + lives

This beta has very little sense of progression that aren't completely cosmetic such as the homescapes-esque town customisations. In the original plants vs zombies, one level beaten would unlock a plant, feature, tool or other item. This would keep the game feeling constantly fresh, with something new to experiment with every level. This was similar in plants vs zombies 2, with most levels giving you coins but every 3-4 levels you would get a new plant/feature/tool/etc. In pre-2020 pvz3, you progressed through the devour tower with each floor unlocking a new plant/area/feature/tool/etc. My point is the only things modern pvz3 can offer you currently is coins (which don't have a use yet), powerups and the coined-in live system which actively discourages players from playing your game. Steadily unlocking things is great for keeping players engaged, long expanses of gameplay without rewards outside of currency get boring and discouraging after a while. Beating modern pvz3 levels would earn you about the same rewards as a breakout battle from pre-2020 pvz3, which weren't even the focus of that game. Pre-2020 pvz3 had lives systems for the devour tower and the brainiac battles, which were excusable because there were still other modes to complete or things to do in the game while you would wait for more lives. This was a big positive for me, pre-2020 pvz3 always had something for the player to do and if they got bored with that, they could easily continue to progress in different areas of the game(devour tower, brainiac battles, breakout battles and arena). With modern pvz3, you're essentially locked out of the game until you buy more brains, which is possibly why the game is so generous with brains currently.

Story

The story seems to be the main selling point of this new iteration of pvz3. I don't have much to say here, the story is fine, the customisation is cool and the dialogue is quite charming. It'd be cool for the building perks from pre-2020 pvz3 to make a comeback through the world map such as the lawn and savings bank giving coins etc. Taco tickets should be removed or repurposed, currently they are pointless and turn progressing the story, something that should be automatic with beating the levels, into something players have to manually do. Sure it gives the option for people not interested in the story to just keep playing but it creates a weird disconnect between the gameplay and the story. Story segments should be presented automatically between levels and make sense contextually with the levels.

Vasebreaker

just program fallen seedpackets, don't only have sun as the way to plant plants.. This mode seems like such an afterthought as it's not as fully realised as any previous iteration. Also integrate it into the story, please don't seperate it into it's own thing like with what happened in pvz2. I'd also like to see a comeback of more mini games, I'm glad one came back but mini games were a massive part of the first game's identity. The game is being advertised as "going back to the series' roots" after all.

Final thoughts

I understand that this is a beta and everything is still subject to change, but the game is currently heading into a worse direction than the previous iteration, which was slandered even harder by fans for more surface level things such as the art style. Innovation for the sake of innovation seems to be the current trend with the franchise and it has not gone down well with fans, newcomers and critics alike. Pvz3 is currently having an identity crisis, previously taking inspiration from clash Royale, now from gardenscapes. I think instead of borrowing from other popular mobile games, pvz3 should continue to build it's own identity based on the series' previous iterations and justify itself being a worthy sequel to the previous games. just be yourself, pvz!!! we love you!! 

3 Replies

  • Pvz 3 got another beta. First project hot tub and now this. Well its better than pure silence.

    Its not looking great tbh.

    I played all 50 levels and here's my thoughts.

    I still don't know how to feel about the pvz3 artstyle (thank goodness they brought color back to the title though, the post bfn color choice was bland as heck) it looks fine on some characters and objects like sunflower, crazy dave, and the new cast but looks horrendous on others like gargantuar, imp, and the suns (seriously why is it a still image). Also can anyone tell me if the male coneheads have wierd shadow lighting or actual hair now?

    Once again the problem with the early build wasnt that it was in 3d but that it was terrible looking 3d that looked like it was from a 1st wave 3ds game.

    I think pvz2 still has my favorite artstyle it rounds out the pvz1 style while also adding a bit more charm in the animations like the pult family.

    STOP CENSORING THE BUCKETHEAD YOU COWARDS!

    The new plants are meh. Even if he has a cool sound silversword is just gloomshroom. Bamboo shoots is ok but he definetly has to be set up in advance and doesnt do anything too unique.

    The new zombies are a bit better the barrel imp (I cant remember his name) is all right and his speed being affected by elevation is a decent concept.

    Bowling zombie impressed me yet it looks ridicolous how he still throws his ball even when his arm fell off. Also why is every other zombie arm that falls off leave a green stump yet bowling zombie shows his bone clearly like a pvz1/2 zombie, is it simply a visual choice or somekind of censorship?

    Duck float zombies return and they move slower on land but faster in water. Good idea especially with the water surges.

    Not being able to pick plants is a pain but the selection is small now but I hope they change it in the future as being given a limited roster feels more like a play at gimping the player rather than actually being necessary for a level. This seems to he a common complaint and i get it.

    The story so far.

    The gardenscapes approach is so bizarre. It just feels out of place and the fact that its being used to tell the story is weird, why isnt it just level story based progression since we have to play levels anyway to earn taco tickets?

    We help dave fix up his house on neighborville (ya know at this point after bfn and project hot tub I think this title/name is just cursed) than go to find a robot lawn mower called Mo and then his neice patrice blazing from the comics (so is blazing dave's last name? Ok) we help build her a fort and build a zombie detector only to find out they're everywhere after zomboss sent them a card saying his minions would get their brains. I do like dave's relationship with patrice especially with the little picture with him pushing her on the tire swing, its wholesome.

    The beta ends here after the zombie signal detector. I wonder why it isnt level based progression instead of this wierd gardenscapes version and the still image of dave standing around still just looks really cheap.

    Pvz1 and 2 dont really have groundbreaking stories but i think intergrating the story into the actual flow of gameplay progression would work better like in 2.

    Music

    Its alright. The changes to grasswalk aren't great and the campground theme sounds like the intro to a halloween show rather than a pvz level.

    The gameplay and animations.

    This is where I think pvz3 lets me down the most.

    I remember back in the first beta but why is the zombie eating animation still so bad? In pvz1 and 2 they actually eat plants by picking them apart with their hands than taking it to their mouth and chewing. Why do they just fling theit arms toward plants rather than actually eat them.

    Squash doesn't actually flatten zombies they just fall apart like legos, why.

    Tangle kelp just kinda slaps zombie rather than strangle and drag them into water like 1. 2 slapped as well but it looked a little better.

    How did pvz1 on ds do this better?

    Chili bean stun just looks less appealing.

    Zombie bodies just sinking into the lawn to despawn looks super awkward.

    Grapes of wrath felt pointless most of the time since it only activated in most levels near the end when there were only 2-3 zombies left and it was wrapping up anyway. Also randomly targeting tiles just got in the way sometimes.

    The powers ups seem kinda pointless. I never really used them and in cant see why they cant just be instants like p vz 1 other than microtransactions yet i rarely use them due to how easy the game is.

    The levels feel disjointed since we have Dave's lawn, a campground with water, but then a volcano with slanted tiles what? In pvz1 the levels were simple and made sense due to the house being used itself as the levels with the pool using water and roof using slanted tiles which made sense. Pvz 2 also had the different eras so it could introduce concepts to each of them like dinosaurs and water. Maybe the story will give reasons for why we got here later?

    The rapid tides and volcano blasts are ok gimmicks but thats only if theres enough water and you haven't planted enough in the volcano yet. I'll see how it turns out in the full release.

    I dont really like only having MO as a single lawnmower since it takes away prioritising or sacrificing a lane for the greater good of the defense especially since we could one time kamikaze launch a mower in pvz2 to save our defensive.

    Overall the game felt way too easy. I breezed through all 50 levels in roughly two and a half hours. I never felt challenged even when a Gargantuar appeared. It gets worse since the game gives you the blover safety net when they reach your house and you can even get rake or stun boosts before hand. Heck if I could choose seeds cabbage pelt would be spammed because he has no weakness in the beta. He has a good fire rate and damage unlike bamboo and peashooter and can ignore elevation rules all together.

    It feels like 50 levels of a tutorial at times. Kinda wierd since this is the third game in the series. Pvz1 got its mechanics in a lot easier and faster than this. I hate being hand held in what every new plant and zombie does it the start of a level. The Alan and let you knkw what a new zombie does after you've seen it like pole vaulter showing up and countering your wallnuts with mo warning that that's his ability at first. Do it really need to know how an imp works popcap?

    Its also jarring since the game explains that zombies are sllwed down by water after like 5 levels of zombies getting slowed by sater already.

    I was genhinely shocked when a gargantuar appeared in a level because he randomly appeared and the game didnt tell me it was coming in a popup. Seeing zombies before the level to plan was something even old pvz 3 got right.

    Im not asking for big wave beach soul crushing difficulty but i'd like to still be challenged a little.

    The levels feel way to short and are over right when it starts picking up.

    Than there's the life system. You lose one then you die and have to wait for it to charge back overtime, however since the game can give you infinite lives for a time period and the games so ridicolousy easy at times you'll hardly need it.

    Even then whats the point? Don't you want me to play your game Popcap? I could binge play pvz2, however if I lose enough here enough ill have to wait. That's bull and its gonna make people not wanna play the game.

    Vasebreaker got butchered. You have to wait after beating it to play again (23 hours and 5 minutes wtf) and its mind numbling easy to the point of putting me asleep. How do you screw up Vasebreaker? 

    Many seem dissapointed as I will now roughly quote some youtubers: T3rr0r: " I played a little bit of it and hate how you can feel its a 2022 mobile game, especially with the U.I and homescapes style "customization" pvz3 just doesnt expand on 2 the way 2 did on the original. The plants arent really that different and the new gimmicks dont really add anything that changes up the gameplay too much. They should just release and market it as a spinoff like heroes rather than try to be the third entry in a trilogy that has already set the bar very high".

    From the channel 660nj: "It's impressive how after 6 months popcap all that pvz 3 got was a hub world a ranking system based on where you killed a zombie, shuffle arpund the story to only be the first 24 levels, and add a vasebreaker you can only play every few hours, phenomenal job, popcap."

    A common complaint: "The main problem I have with any sequel is whether it will add anything to the story. There sill come a point where a series just cant add anything to improve the gameplay.  So im only here to see if it continues the story".

    It seens many are dissapointed with pvz3 and wont live up to what pvz2 at its best has established.

    x

    x

    x

    Since we're this far into a 3rd beta now i fear gameplay will stay like this now and this appears to be a common fear for pvz3. I think fans in general have a vary low opinion on the series right now as we been faceplanting from one misstep to another from, treatment of past games, bfn, hot tub, and now this.

    One thing im disapointed with is how the series keeps going further and further to mobile tactics. Imo pvz1 worked because it was everywhere: PC,console, DS, and mobile. I just think ths series wouldve been better if it stayed a more dedicated way to play rather than simply mobile.

    Tldr this videos still relevant: 



    Comic patrice

    Pvz3 patrice

    Easiest big wave beach level gameplay

    Hardest pvz3 beta level.

    Personally I gave it a 4/10 on the survey. Its playable and does have some charge but that can't save it from just being boring and a bit too mobile gamey. The survey feedback also seemed far too limited to what we could say.

    Makes more sense when you realize that pvz 2 and pvz 3 sere made by two seperate teams.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    3 years ago

    I've not kept up on PvZ3 much, but from what I've seen it's much better than it was at first, but not as good as the original or PvZ2. I enjoy both of those games but stopped playing 2 since there were serious problems with the arena mode, and too many new plants added that cost real money.

    Part of the issue is that losing the IP's creator, George Fan, means the person that came up with this wondrous idea is no longer part of the universe, so things added may not always jive well. In general, they've done a decent job, especially with both GW games, but there's been some serious problems too; BfN's failure being a big one.

    I want PvZ3 to succeed, so I want them to make it work. PvZ2 is the only game in the franchise right now getting any real updates and support, and it's not a great place to be. I was getting quests done in GW2 last night and was bemoaning the fact we still have no news on a new shooter just makes things look worse and worse with PvZ3 not getting the best reviews. Not the best time to be a PvZ fan right now, but I'd love to be proven wrong!

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    3 years ago
    @Iron_Guard8 I think a lot of people consider 2016 one of pvz 2's best years as i believe it was before a lot of the leveling and heavier arena style monetization came in. The progress through adventure mode was also balanced more along the gargantuar mini bosses in each world.

    Some of the new plants are really cool but eventually some begin to overlap in purpose or are too powerful. five dollars for chomper will forever be a massive oof.

    A lot of the people that worked with George also left when he did and its the reason a lot of the better pvz 2 was removed. Also hurts knowing that Popcap was the one who wanted more microtransactions in 2 which Fan was very much again and then he got layed off when Popcap/EA purged the studio of employees. Though there are differing tales of what the full story was.

    Gw and heroes at their peak show that the series can branch out and be successful when supported but bfn and late no support also shows how easily you can drive something into the ground that was once easily praised.

    It isn't so much that i care about pvz 3 that much but rather that the franchise needs a win right now after everything that's happened.

    Crazy how pvz 2 still gets supported heavily yet pvz 3 feels almost like a fan game and communication is non existent with popcap.

    I just wish gw2 had gotten a better final update as the portal rotation is so @##*. Imagine if we got spooky squash for Halloween and not team vanquish but with specific variants every time except that one month that its capture the taco.

    Really hoping the series can climb back up because we're definitely in a dark age for the franchise right now




About Plants vs. Zombies™ 2

Discuss your experience with Plants vs Zombies 2 on our community forum.5,407 PostsLatest Activity: 2 days ago