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Iron_Guard8's avatar
5 years ago

Class Discussion: Imp/Mech

Time for Imps. I’m mixed on these guys as they can be fun to play, but so many players are obnoxious to play against even when they don’t use their mechs. With their mechs, too many Imps can ruin matches in GW2 (singular or duo mechs aren’t that big of a deal), combine that with GW2’s gravity grenade and I see why the class got hit hard in BfN, even if I feel they overcompensated. AI are a nightmare for Imps as your small size and mobility are negated by their built-in aimbot ability, which completely changes the dynamic when playing private matches or in BfN when several bots are in the match. They originally had 50 health in GW2 but that was quickly patched to 75. I personally don’t think any character should have less than 75 without significant mitigating circumstances.

The basic Imp weapon is a pair of rapid-fire blasters. They aren’t the most accurate weapons in the world and on full auto can be pretty hard to keep on target but that makes sense based on what they are and what they’re supposed to be. The variants change these up a lot, and is a big reason why so many of us like variants in the first place, (the mechs are another reason but I’ll get to them later). Out of them all, I like Party the most, largely for the music, but they’re all fun. BfN’s Imp’s main weapon works and can still double jump, and can upgrade that double jump as well, but like many camera and movement abilities in BfN, it can be janky and awkward at times.

The mechs are so important to the class and its identity that one of my least favorite things in BfN was them taking the various mechs away and leaving us with just the basic one. BfN just did not handle mechs well at all; the explosion is so oddly animated that I thought it was bugged at first, the Imp should not eject when the mech is destroyed; it was much better as a risk that you’ll be vanquished when the mech is destroyed as opposed to ejecting when you manually detonate the mech, the ‘suicide mech’ is a thing as its actually best to run into a group of plants and explode rather than use the mech normally, and giving it sprint and adding armor back to the mech only partially negated some of the other issues. I do like the overheat meter for the mech’s main weapon, something I wish we had for certain mech variants in GW2 (some like Pylon use normal ammo so don’t need it), and you can get the mech back faster and use it longer with certain upgrades, but I find the extended duration mech is better in PvE as you can keep it alive longer. The Pylon Mech is one of my favorites as it’s basically a road cone on a unicycle with a huge engine and I love how ridiculous it is. Different mechs are a must for a new game, the, admittedly, great skins for the BfN mech are not enough to make up for the loss in weapon variety. Also, each mech in GW2 had a unique gesture (although the regular, Party and Z7 mechs had the same one), yet only the AI mechs can do that in BfN, I rather like those, especially the Pylon mech’s ‘V’ sign.

The Z7 Imp is problematic to a point as it’s part of the deluxe version of GW2, which most people I know have, but many complain about it being P2W or at least close to that as the Imp’s weapon fires as fast as you can push the trigger and you can really ramp up the DPS when you do that. I have it like many do, but as I use my LMB to use it, and not a controller with a turbo button or some kind of macro, I have to click rapidly so it works fine without going too far.

Gravity Grenade is too good in GW2. We’ve known this for quite awhile now, but it’s not all that great in BfN as it often fails to work on plants at all, or you can just get out of it with abilities, making it range from useless to slightly useful. There’s an upgrade to make it larger since it’s so small in BfN (too big in GW2), but it ends up being inferior in pretty much everyway to Nightcap’s casting shadows after they added that ‘suction’ effect to it. This one definitely needs a middle ground for a new game.

Imp-Kata is an ability that I rarely use in either game. It often bugs out in GW2, at least in certain spots like near the flag of power in the Backyard Battleground, causing no damage to anything, I don’t recall if it does this anywhere else. In BfN it plays a little different, as I believe it ‘winds up’ its damage over time till it ends, rather than a fixed, steady amount of damage spread evenly over its duration. I’ve read that zooming in while spinning in this ability in BfN makes it do more damage, but I’ve never tried that. This is in many ways, a kind of turret mode again, you can move some during the ability but not all that much and while you gain armor, Imps are designed to be fast and mobile so this move is often followed by being vanquished in PvP, so I don’t use it a lot. If brought forward, it really only needs to be checked for balance.

Model-wise, the biggest issue with BfN Imp for me is the lack of variants mean lack of outfits and mechs. This is a thing for all characters, but I feel it hits Imps the hardest as they have their costumes and their mechs and losing that made the character a lot less fun for me, and obviously many others. When we knew a new PvZ shooter was coming, one thing I was excited for was band new mechs and what kind of cool new machines to ride as an Imp were coming, and we got less not more. This is definitely one of the reasons I find myself enjoying BfN less than GW2.

So for the new game, bring those variants back, do any needed balancing, make the mech less of a suicide bomb than it is in BfN, give us alternate abilities for gravity grenade and Imp-kata, make the mech useful and powerful without being oppressive, and overall, make it fun to play as and against.

3 Replies

  • @Iron_Guard8They absolutely gutted the character in bfn.

    Any class getting spammed is overwhelming but the worst part is when they get spammed for your own team like in boss hunt on crazy where it feels like your on babysitting duty for the match as they get shredded fast.

    Z7 could just stand a slight rof nerf and he would be okay.

    Now here we go.

    Gravity grenade got absolutely BUTCHERED in bfn. The size was a little much in gw2 but in bfn they **** all over it by reducing the size to irrelevancy where you have to carry an upgrade to even make it useable and then there is the fact that your enemy can still use abilities to easily ESCAPE or KILL you. This also sucks in that they absolutely butchered imps primary to where you practically have stand infront of your enemy to hit them. Yeah gw2 blasters were inaccurate if you spammed them at range but he still had some viability with gravity grenade and range.

    Impkata was already just an ok ability in gw2 and they somehow made it WORSE in bfn. Your damage has to RAMP UP in bfn as you become a SLOW moving target with A VISIBLE radius all your enemies can just sprint away from and then just shoot you dead. Don't forget dealing with shields, charged instakill sniper shots, and Overheal now. Did I forget that citron can also insta roll for 75 damage, does popcap just hate imp in general?

    His new look is just bad. His helmet and back lights don't light up and his butt boosters and lasers are much less detailed and less colorful than gw2. The face and eyes are also just ugly on the bfn model. The only thing I like is that tiny little scratch on his helmet.

    He doesn't even reload properly in bfn. In gw2 he would open his blasters, empty them and flick new ones in. In bfn he reloads them while the backs are Closed and he doesn't even flick new batteries in. EVEN HIS VARIANTS IN 2 HAD PROPER AND CREATIVE RELOADS!!!

    Can I just state how much I HATE the new z mech?

    The visual design is just bad and as someone who likes mech designs in sci fi the gw2 mech makes a lot more practical sense like holding a blaster in its arm rather than a blaster arm and the bfn mech looks like its barely armored or reinforced at all, especially the limbs and lightbulb back. The call is also visually weaker in bfn.

    The missiles in gw2 had the lights on the mech activate before the flaps opened and launched forth visually big misslies that had a purple trace which resulted in a very distinct smokey purple explosion where in bfn this cartoonishly oversized device pops out and lets the missiles out in a explosion thats easy to miss. Seriously how do we go from hundreds of unique visual effects in gw2 for over 100 classes and then get what looks like budget overwatch effects for bfn?

    The punch is super janky and not as visually satisfying as the stomp in gw2, thanks to bfn mech's noodle arms and the less colorful visual cue.

    Heck lets even talk about the imp pickup animation since im on a crusade here. In bfn, imp stands back then enters the hatch from behind after climbing up in bfn but in gw2 the mech actually lands face down on him to protect him before raising its visor revealing the imp in the cockpit and the wind up toy thing starts spinning signaling that the mechs life span has begun.

    The invincibility glitch was something that should've been taken care of at launch not months later.

    Explosion animation? What ******* explosion animation in bfn? The mech in gw2 actually blew up and sent its main pieces flying everywhere, where in bfn its just an explosion effect with a few nuts and bolts over the z mech which for a couple of frames is still sitting there after it happens, Jesus Christ.

    The armor in gw2 could be bypassed through several means but they didn't even consider these for the bfn mech and since imp doesn't die upon the mechs death he never has to worry about positioning as his stupidly powerful explosion will still kill you if he bails. 2 citrons can also just empeach him to now force him out making a counterplay in gw2 even stupidly stronger than ever but still allow station free reign with no fear of retaliation.

    And to hammer home the budget overwatch feel he even does the dva pose on the selection screen in case you didn't get it yet!

    Lets not forget all the other zmech variants like shrimp being sucked up by the tail or lil drake being swooped down upon and eaten or scallywag entering with his fat self struggling to fit through the back pirate ship window.

    They only had 1 imp to animate and balance in bfn and they completely and utterly FAILED him imo.

    We need to get to superbrainz so I can talk about a character I don't completely hate from gw2 in bfn but don't worry I still got a few things saved for gameium crasher.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    5 years ago

    @stukapooka I love all those Imp variant animations in GW2, from the way the Scallywag Imp ate his blasters and spat them back out to reload them to how then imps got into the mechs differently for each one (barring the basic, party, and Z7). 

    The explosion effect in BfN is so bad that as I stated in the first post, I thought it was some kind of bug. It just kind of hangs there and then 'poof'. It actually blows apart in GW2 which is very satisfying as a plant player, unless it blows up in your face that is!

    I'm writing on Citron now, and mention Spin Dash, but like Snapdragon's swoop slam, it's a lot of damage that Imps can't really avoid. I know a lot of people complained about Imps in GW2 and they can be hard to take out with their small size and double jump, but he feels like one of the weakest characters to play in BfN, and may have fared the worst of all of the returning characters.

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    5 years ago

    @Iron_Guard8I really loved the imp variants. All the imps played differently like splash on pylon, long range for shrimp, and very innacurate but fire damage drake.

    I want an ice imp with a brain freeze mech!

    All the mechs felt great to play and were unique enough to never feel like they were the same outside of party but his theme is a banger so he gets a pass.

    Complaining about imp being small, fast, and hard to hit feels like complaining about scout from tf2 when his whole role is being an annoying indirect attacker who can easily maneuver in and out of combat to get you that you cant easily beat in 1v1 despite them beijg a glass cannon. Thank goodness they gave him 75 health otherwise he would be destroyed by charge classes.

    They had 2 dollars and a pack of gum for the mech explosion animation in bfn. Its hilarious when you think they also had to model the other mechs explosions in gw2 so its even lazier in bfn where they only have 1 mech to animate.

    Fun fact in private play remastered walnut hills you can be one shot by the cannons as a mech but also destroy them by walking into them and crushing them.

    Corn fell hard off a cliff for the plant team but imp straight up cratered into the earth from outer space. Rose is also up there but we'll get to her in time.

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