Gardens and Graveyards - Unbalanced

The developers reduced the time it takes for zombies to capture a garden, I'd be inclined to think that they believe the Zombies are the ones getting the short end of the stick. 

Plants do need to get more coins thoughl

I was also of a mind that Zombies are OP in G&G and then... well to be quite frank i stopped sucking as a plant lol. The more you play the game and start to learn how to play each class and their role in G&G the easier it is to stop the zombies. Now, with that having been said, the zombies DO have the luxury of being able to zerg without much thought... but that's the beauty of it... they are zombies! They are supposed to feel stupid and relentless, Popcap has done a PHENOMENAL job at conveying that sense and maintaining the original games feel in that regard.

On the other hand, the plants have a closer spawn point to the garden, that might seem like it isn't much but it's VERY crucial, they don't have to worry about a teleporter or defending it. The zombies do! 

So it's like this my man, you need plants who know how to STAY in the garden and less peashooters camping on the rooftops. You also need a few cacti trolling the engineers with drone strikes and shooting down the engineers drones as well! That is one of the reasons Popcap made challenges a part of the leveling system! It's also there to teach you your class and your classes role in the game! Pay attention to it and you will do much better. 

There is zero need for a rebalance, but i do feel your pain when you get into a random room of plants that camp on rooftops and let the zombies zerg without much push back. 

I also think that plants need more coins, i seen someone say they don't because if they win quickly the coins per minute are good, whatever lol, they need more incentive to be played! Each garden should pay no less than 1k for defending it and the first garden should offer up a 10k bonus! That way, more players will be inclined to actually play the plants instead of mashing the change team buttons! 

I think ideally you need 2-3 people attacking the teleporter constantly, and drone strikes from the cacti helping too. Then the other team members fighting very closely to the garden and maybe 1 team member sniping.

But overall with any given two teams of equal skill, the zombies have the upper hand slightly I think, especially in terms of the coins per minute. You could say the plants should do better, but then they're only doing better because of the skill level. For two teams with equal skill the coins per minute should be the same, but it's in favour of the zombies. It seems for the plants to get their fair share of the coins you need a team whose skill is much higher than the zombies.

I think the rate at which the zombies capture the garden should be reduced about 20%, or make it so the zombies need 2 more in the zone to start capturing. Or what could be done is the range at which the plants are considered in the garden could be higher than the zombies range - that way the plants don't have to be in such a tight area where they can just be killed too easily.

Also, if there is 1 or more zombies in the garden, if you as a plant are in the garden you should get +20 coins per few seconds for defending it. That gives a bit more coin to the plant and deservedly I think.

Simple fix for this is to make potted plants actually useful. At least triple the health and triple the range. They get picked off from butt pirates 1000 ft away.

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@eternaldragonx wrote:

Simple fix for this is to make potted plants actually useful. At least triple the health and triple the range. They get picked off from butt pirates 1000 ft away.

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People will still pick them off and drop drone strikes on them lol. It won't help much if at all. 

It would be nice to have them last a bit longer though, nothing more frustrating than dropping a super rare plant expecting it to do some good and it dies in two seconds.

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@wolfmoon2682 wrote:

I was also of a mind that Zombies are OP in G&G and then... well to be quite frank i stopped sucking as a plant lol. The more you play the game and start to learn how to play each class and their role in G&G the easier it is to stop the zombies. Now, with that having been said, the zombies DO have the luxury of being able to zerg without much thought... but that's the beauty of it... they are zombies! They are supposed to feel stupid and relentless, Popcap has done a PHENOMENAL job at conveying that sense and maintaining the original games feel in that regard.

On the other hand, the plants have a closer spawn point to the garden, that might seem like it isn't much but it's VERY crucial, they don't have to worry about a teleporter or defending it. The zombies do! 

So it's like this my man, you need plants who know how to STAY in the garden and less peashooters camping on the rooftops. You also need a few cacti trolling the engineers with drone strikes and shooting down the engineers drones as well! That is one of the reasons Popcap made challenges a part of the leveling system! It's also there to teach you your class and your classes role in the game! Pay attention to it and you will do much better. 

There is zero need for a rebalance, but i do feel your pain when you get into a random room of plants that camp on rooftops and let the zombies zerg without much push back. 

I also think that plants need more coins, i seen someone say they don't because if they win quickly the coins per minute are good, whatever lol, they need more incentive to be played! Each garden should pay no less than 1k for defending it and the first garden should offer up a 10k bonus! That way, more players will be inclined to actually play the plants instead of mashing the change team buttons! 

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I don't think it's a matter of "just play better."

Since we've been stuck on Wall-nut Hills for days now, I've never once seen plants win after playing a couple dozen games or more on this one map. It just can't be done. Now people have come to realize that since zombies win all the time, that's the team they need to be on for the coins, which makes the whole experience even worse.

Plants can win on other maps in G&G, so I'm not sure it's G&G that needs rebalanced as much as this map specifically. The end-game especially, but also the gardens, are just plain impossible to defend for the average players (who are actually playing the game, not some hypothetical "better player").

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@neokarny wrote:

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@wolfmoon2682 wrote:

I was also of a mind that Zombies are OP in G&G and then... well to be quite frank i stopped sucking as a plant lol. The more you play the game and start to learn how to play each class and their role in G&G the easier it is to stop the zombies. Now, with that having been said, the zombies DO have the luxury of being able to zerg without much thought... but that's the beauty of it... they are zombies! They are supposed to feel stupid and relentless, Popcap has done a PHENOMENAL job at conveying that sense and maintaining the original games feel in that regard.

On the other hand, the plants have a closer spawn point to the garden, that might seem like it isn't much but it's VERY crucial, they don't have to worry about a teleporter or defending it. The zombies do! 

So it's like this my man, you need plants who know how to STAY in the garden and less peashooters camping on the rooftops. You also need a few cacti trolling the engineers with drone strikes and shooting down the engineers drones as well! That is one of the reasons Popcap made challenges a part of the leveling system! It's also there to teach you your class and your classes role in the game! Pay attention to it and you will do much better. 

There is zero need for a rebalance, but i do feel your pain when you get into a random room of plants that camp on rooftops and let the zombies zerg without much push back. 

I also think that plants need more coins, i seen someone say they don't because if they win quickly the coins per minute are good, whatever lol, they need more incentive to be played! Each garden should pay no less than 1k for defending it and the first garden should offer up a 10k bonus! That way, more players will be inclined to actually play the plants instead of mashing the change team buttons! 

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I don't think it's a matter of "just play better."

Since we've been stuck on Wall-nut Hills for days now, I've never once seen plants win after playing a couple dozen games or more on this one map. It just can't be done. Now people have come to realize that since zombies win all the time, that's the team they need to be on for the coins, which makes the whole experience even worse.

Plants can win on other maps in G&G, so I'm not sure it's G&G that needs rebalanced as much as this map specifically. The end-game especially, but also the gardens, are just plain impossible to defend for the average players (who are actually playing the game, not some hypothetical "better player").

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Don't tell me it can't be done, i've done it several times in the past 2 days man! You just need a team that doesn't play like garbage! If you don't shut down the teleporters you are going to lose, if you don't keep plants inside the garden you are going to lose. It's rather simple. HOWEVER, trying to do that with randoms is not as easy as it sounds. 

I hate to sound like a braggart but i usually win on the plant team, i play as a cactus and i almost always shut down the teleporter and the engineers trying to build it. I've received SEVERAL hate messages because of it and it makes me chuckle. 

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@wolfmoon2682 wrote:

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Don't tell me it can't be done, i've done it several times in the past 2 days man! You just need a team that doesn't play like garbage! If you don't shut down the teleporters you are going to lose, if you don't keep plants inside the garden you are going to lose. It's rather simple. HOWEVER, trying to do that with randoms is not as easy as it sounds. 

I hate to sound like a braggart but i usually win on the plant team, i play as a cactus and i almost always shut down the teleporter and the engineers trying to build it. I've received SEVERAL hate messages because of it and it makes me chuckle. 

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 *Edit: Apparently it didn't want to take my text so here it is again.

At risk of making people angry with me I'll share my experiences.

Defending the first point as plants is very possible, I've done it several times including earlier today. The key difference is this only seems to happen if I am the cactus or peashooter and I actively attack the teleporter. (Since nobody else seems to want to) This has lead to some hate messages, which I admit are pretty humorous. My personal favorite is Agent Pea, makes me feel like a secret agent on a solo sabatoge mission. (Pea sappin mah sentry) The other key destinction is, I often get perfect wins when there are severla chompers. I can't imagine why... may have to do with the fact they actually stay on the objective. The lesson here is defending the first point CAN BE DONE, even when outnumbered by 3-4. It all depends on if some players are willing to take initiative. The question then becomes, are you willing to be one of those players?

Winning as the plants is pretty easy if you know what you're doing. I've got three words for you CHILI BEAN BOMBS, if you have at least 3 Peashooters on the team there's no reason why you can't defend any garden on any map. If the peas camp the objective instead of running off and getting killed one by one they dominate every game with their massive splash damage and nuclear bomb attacks. As it's been said, locate and dominate the teleporters. Keep plants IN the garden, if the number of zombies outnumbers the plants they'll take the hill. Remember that summoned zombies also count and can capture gardens! I see so many plants ignoring summoned zombies in the hill, attacking or leaving them to capture it. Stick together, plants are weak alone but if you have a group at the garden you've got things covered, don't run off and do whatever you want. That goes for you too cacti, hiding using your drones! A cactus is deadly, their mines and wallnuts can really deter zombies, if you insist on hiding and using your drone drop off your wallnuts and mines first.

I think people just assume that the plants are weaker and that it's not possible to win because they're getting stuck with younger players who don't know what they're doing or adults that would rather go out and spawn camp zombies instead of protecting the garden.