Horde mode feedback

@benn1nat0r I'm the opposite in that I hate it: zombie grenades not going off instantly like plants often leads to your death due to you going somewhere then it explodes in your face and plants equal win buttons in duels, telling the difference between player, bot, and spawnable is an absolute nightmare, the drones either run out of fuel before they reach their target or the bots just gun them down also yeti imp>dandelion by a mile, the spawn idea is neat but breaks the game and final objectibes greatly and fair warning if you leave it somewhere then die you go all the way back so you could go back to the start of the map, and the sound design/animations are really off a lot things are really quite and don't match up with whats happening.

Also the lag I've been experiencing at 39 ping is absolutely horrible in this gamemode like whats going on ive been getting kicked back to giddy park, falling through maps, and having textures straight up disappearing.

@stukapooka The zombie grenades could be improved to fire instantly like the plants, I agree, but overall it still seems balanced because, as you mentioned, yeti imp is way smaller than dandelion.

The animations are off and need improving.
The other technical issues you mentioned I haven't experienced, playing on Central European servers. I think the lag you experience may only be because everyone is trying out the mode currently.

@stukapooka Yeti imp is supposed to be harder to hit and dandelion can jump higher. The short fuel makes you strategize and prevents people from sitting in the back relying on the yeti imp and dandelion. However, I think that the damage is to high and makes the yeti imp and dandelion too overpowered.

@stukapooka 100% agree with biggest issue is everyone looks the same. I mean I already hate turf but this took it up 10 notches to passionate hatred. Got my stars and done with it.

Also noticed I had 10 invites immediately to group up which I didn't and that resulted in my next 5 games being savage beatings with all black plates on one side and me and brown plates on the other...fun.

@Gormey Same it really exposes the map design flaws in turf and as i mentioned the lag in this mode has been absolutely horrible for me even at low ping. Cant even get my stars as i usually get booted from the match 😑.

@Pheesley So far I haven't encountered any camping in this mode except spawn camping, which is terrible in any mode.

I don't think the primary damage is too low. In my opinion it's fine the way it is. I always read comments on the forums that healing is way too strong (although sunflower has been nerfed into the abyss) and primary damage is too low.

But seriously, why does everyone think so?
You can vanquish a player in a few seconds without using special abilities. If primary weapons were to be buffed even more everyone would just keep dying every few second.

Everyone always mentions gw2 in this context. I wouldn't want bfn to be like gw2. I liked gw1, hated gw2 and love bfn.
I quit gw2 because it was unbalanced (mainly op imp) and to me it seemed like healing had no impact whatsoever.

@benn1nat0r primary damage being too low and healing being to high is true. Healing slows down fights so much, and unless you have abilities, there's not much you can do except snipe from a safe distance. Its pretty unfun to fight. And sunflower isn't bad because her healing is so good.
When people mention gw2, its probably because gw2 is just designed better. Gw2 had low damage, only a little higher than BFN's. Movement was slow enough, and there wasn't any sprinting, so there wasn't constant hiding and running away. The damage and movement mixed together pretty well.
In BFN, they lower the damage even more, and then added sprinting, making movement faster, made healing faster, and added Overhealth. The damage is too low to combat any of this well, and it makes running and hiding constant.

@Pheesley First of all I want to thank you for your detailed reply!
I know I'm probably in a minority with my opinions on these issues but I can't really agree with many points you make.

I wouldn't say gw2 was better designed. Especially in the beginning things were extremely unbalanced and it stayed that way for much longer than it did in bfn founder's edition. I get that all of this is subjective, but I found the maps to be way worse, the art style was much darker and didn't reflect PvZ, they added so many variants that it got way too complicated.
Bfn improved on the art style, soundtrack, things to do besides pvp, maps (except maybe the lack of verticality) and much more.It made the experience more accessible. The new character are awesome as well,
I played gw1 a lot and felt like gw2 was a rushed downgrade from the original. I couldn't stand playing it anymore after 20 hours. So far I have played bfn for 600+ hours.

I think sunflower's healing was nerfed so much that it's nearly useless already. They removed the ability to combine the upgrade that makes healing faster and enables her to heal 2 plants. Sunny Side up has a high recharge time.
Scientist can easily heal entire groups and himself while also having great mobility.

And I couldn't play the gw games anymore nowadays because of the lack of sprinting. Honestly, without it getting anywhere would be way too tedious. While playing the gw games I felt that movement was way too slow.

As for the primary damaged, I think they have sufficiently increased that a number of updates ago. I like the TTK the way it is now. I believe it is more forgiving while also enabling more strategic play. I know it sound like characters having better primaries would require more strategy, but I disagree. In gw2 players always used the most op high dps characters and you were obliterated before even making a move. It wasn't fun.

Sniping is a problem and damage drop off would help, but Im' not sure it would fit with bfn's map design. The maps are very big and most of the time combat isn't close up. I think it could end up being tiresome if you always had to cross half the map before being able to do any damage as a non sniper.