I tried GW2 for the first time...
With everyone here talking about how great GW2 was I just had to try it. Well, besides the different weapons and cool skins I didn’t think it was anywhere near BFN in terms of gameplay. I’m not a pro...
Forum Discussion
@MrOoahOoahI like the GW games more than BFN, but i can see BFN has improved on some things. For starters, fire damage is changed and more balanced imo, and toxic damage is better too. Sprinting is alright, its a nice change of pace. I really like the Chomper redesign. The artstyle and soundtrack is good. The PVE regions are an improvement, but i don't think they serve much to the overall experience.
I dont think Garden Ops was ever amazing, but BFN's is a complete downgrade. I think they put more work in the regions rather than improving on Ops mode, which could have been good for multiplayer.
BFN could have been better, but its unfinished, buggy, and the PVP is worse imo. They swapped out variants for an inferior upgrade system, which doesn't give nearly as much variety that is needed. New heroes, and upgrades like Steam Blaster that actually change the way you play, are coming in very slowly. Some upgrades just makes classes perform better, so there is a balance problem. Even without upgrades the balancing between classes is a mess and they have yet to address ongoing problems like scientist having too much survivability with Warp, which was balanced in GW. They won't even add Damage Dropoff, as if their method for balancing is working. Adding bullet drag only solves half of the problem.
It could have been better, buts its not finished.
@Pheesley While I agree with your analysis of the game to a point, I want to ask you something: Do you really think the Garden Warfare games, especially the second one, had good balancing between the classes?
I think people just prefer the gw games because of nostalgia or something. I found balancing to be terrible in gw2, like way more terrible than in BfN. The balancing between the normal variants wasn't good and then they added variants that were just better in every aspect. Everyone who bought coins to unlock stuff quicker had a huge advantage over normal players unlocking variants and abilities by playing.
@benn1nat0r I saw your message. I thought the post was too lengthy, made some edits, and then I just ended up deleting it.
I think GW2 did not have the best balancing at launch, but they did fix a lot of balancing problems. There is still more that could be balanced, especially Legendaries and detonators, but considering the numerous variants I think they did an alright job. And I dont think buying coins gave you much of an advantage. You could get a head start, but besides buying Legendaries, coins and most variants were pretty accessible just through playing the game.
The special thing about GW2 was Damage Dropoff. It encouraged classes like Super Brainz into their intended ranges, while also encouraging players to be more engaged in fights by incentivizing closing the gap / getting closer. One major problem with BFN is that it can be played very passively. A player doesn't have to be really engaged in a fight because they deal the same damage at any range, so they can just shoot at a safe distance which can give them plenty of time to run away or take cover. It allows a very boring way of playing, and it creates more balancing issues for the devs.
BFN's pvp is poorly balanced, and what's more concerning me is that they have less characters, 2 similar games to take balancing ideas from, and its not great. 10 months of patches, and what has happened so far? A few good balance changes, and small tweaks to damage, speed, and healing overall, but not enough was done. There are still a lot of MAJOR balancing problems that have endured since launch. Healing is still too strong, and I don't think its balanced when it has a pretty high Heal rate as well as being able to cancel negative effects like 80's tags, Jinx, or Butter Beacon. Many classes that deal high damage per shot are better than high Rate of Fire classes. No Damage Dropoff means that classes with big HP or small hitboxes can snipe. Chomper, a melee character, can still snipe. They buffed his Grody Goop to deal 120 damage over time, while he still snipes. Acorn, one of the smallest classes, still has an HP upgrade. Then they gave him 2 dash charges. Acorn Teamup is still bad, and the primary is unusable. Engineer can still have infinite ammo and spam down choke points. Imp is still the worst. When they buffed all primary weapons, they nerfed Z-mech's from about 8 to 6. Scientist still has too much survivability, and overshadows Sunflower in survivability and healing (Healing Hose has the same rate as Heal Beam for some reason). All-star has been overshadowed by Citron who has much better defensive tools. There are still Health Regen and Speed boosting upgrades that making passive play and camping even worse. Arcane Enigma and Outta Fight can still regenerate full HP while giving invincibility.
Some problems in BFN were fixed in GW2. Arcane Enigma and Warp activating instantly was not a thing. Contesting points while being invincible (including burrow) was not a thing. Citron is still allowed to deal long stun times, which were short in GW2 for good reason.
@Pheesley Thank you for posting this reply! I almost thought I had dementia and needed a test in the likes of: "Person, woman, man, camera, TV".
Especially because one of my lengthy posts disappeared once and suddenly reappeared.
I found gw2's balancing to be terrible at launch. I played it for 18 hours until I decided to quit. The other 2 hours of play time I have on the game are from checking out the updates and improved balancing. I still thought balancing was terrible. I have to admit you've got a valid point about balancing: BfN should be way easier to balance with the new upgrade system, but they still haven't been able to fix the majority of problems.
Healing: I know I have said this many times before but I don't think BfN's healing is way too strong. I agree it could be toned down a bit, but not by much. I always thought healers in gw2 were completely useless as healers and were only used as additional attack characters, with many variants of them making this problem worse.
Damage Drop-off: I think it would certainly making balancing a way more achievable task, but adding it close to 1 year after launch would be a mistake. It would dramatically change the game. Therefore, I think they could implement it in a sequel.
BfN's maps are huge, and I don't think requiring players to get very close to deal significant amounts of damage would be a good chose keeping BfN's map design in mind.
Acorn: Acorn's health upgrade is desperately needed to have a chance against Space Station and Cadets. The second dash didn't change pvp balance at all. If you dash to dodge a ZPG rocket for example, you still die from the rocket even if you are already 1 meter from the rocket away. The hotbox seems to not work when dashing.
Chomper: Chompers buffs were needed to make him as good as Superstar Brainz. They just overshot it and nerfed him again later. Sniping Chompers are a problem, though.
Here's a section I wrote about Super Brainz vs Chomper in another thread:
"If you compare SB to Chomper, who is also primarily a close range fighter, he ends up winning in most categories. Chomper might have an incredibly powerful far range secondary weapon, but SB is better in any other way. His abilities are way better than Chomper's. One of Chomper's is a guaranteed suicide. The other aren't really good compared to SB's. Chomper has an extremely difficult time approaching zombies without taking damage, while it's a breeze for SB. Getting higher vanquish streaks is way more difficult with Chomper."
Imp: Imp isn't as underpowered as everyone says, in my opinion. A small buff to his primary would fix him. Z-Mech ist still incredibly unfair due to explosive escape and him being restored to full health using it. His reward for exiting before out of health should be that he himself doesn't die from the explosion. The entire concept of Imp and z-Mech is a problem. No matter how much he is nerfed, he can still change the balance of a mode with a capture point. He can call his Mech in front of the point and capture it. I still see many players getting the top vanquish streak with imp. I manage to do it all the time when playing as him.
Scientist is way better than Sunflower, in my opinion. Steam Blaster needs a rework that encourages players to play him as a support character.
All-star vs citron: I agree, citron is very powerful. All-star isn't worse, though. The time it takes for his weapon to overheat is a joke. He can deal tons of damage with his primary and abilities. He is just powerful in different ways.
Arcane enigma wasnerfed already. Outta fight is still a huge problem, though.
