Forum Discussion

Pheesley's avatar
6 years ago

Increase Walking Speed! Problems with Movement and Post-Nerf Movement

Right now, BFN is a shooting game with a TTK like Garden Warfare but you can’t dodge bullets. There has been a huge underlying problem with the general gameplay and the problem is that Walking Speed is too slow. I'll be explaining a lot, so its going to be a long one.

For generally any class, Walking is too slow to dodge fire reliably, and Sprinting only does so much (Not to mention Drag distance changes do not work on many characters). As a result you have a bad combination of a game that plays like Call of Duty or Battlefield, but with a Higher TTK. Not only is the Walking Speed too slow for this game, it is slower than Garden Warfare Walking speed. Garden Warfare has been criticized before for having slow movement, so making Walking even slower is just a step backwards.

Because the TTK is generally higher, dodging becomes essential to the combat experience. But in BFN, even moving left and right is at a snail’s pace. Bullets don’t feel dodgeable, and what happens is that every time you die, if feels unfair. 

This is especially obvious when facing 2 or more enemies. Even in a 1 v 1 situation where I’m caught in the open and the enemy shoots first, I feel helpless because shooting players in this game is so easy. Even with Drag distance and Velocity changes, it’s too easy to shoot people because Walking is too slow. The movement is so slow that more and more players are spamming jump while moving instead, which isn’t even that helpful because you still barely move between jumps!

Which leads me to the Healers. Healers are slightly faster than other classes, but it’s certainly not enough when it comes to Healing in combat. You can try and heal someone in combat, but you’ll likely be focused and your walking isn’t fast enough to give you a chance. Healers should be able to rely on their movement to dodge bullets, not just their abilities. You can look at other classes like Corn and Foot Soldier the same way. I believe slow walking speed is a big reason as to why Healers feel weak to some people when it comes to Survivability, especially Sunflower.

Slow Walking Speed especially affects Chomper and Super Brainz because they are way too slow to close the gap, and often chase people more than attack them. Why not Sprint towards enemies then? I’ll get to that in a moment.

For Nightcap, Acorn, and Imp, WITHOUT upgrades these guys are too slow to justify their small health pool and are better off sniping and bunny hopping. The reason Nightcap and Acorn are good can be attributed to their ability to snipe and use broken upgrades (Parkour and Hardened). Parkour is just a great example of unfair movement.

The only Players slow walking benefits are the ones sitting behind cover who caught you out in the open. Slow Walking especially benefits Snipers. (It is so easy to snipe in this game).

I also think the max Jump height is too high, but this could be up to debate because some areas in maps are designed for the current max Jump Height.

I also think the Nerfs to Sprinting and Jumping are a Problem. Here are the Patch Notes from the BFN Website:

Taking Damage & Mobility

  • Updated logic so, instead of waiting for the next jump, there is an extended period where all jumps are reduced in height
  • Sprint speed is now reduced after taking damage
  • In-air movement speed has been reduced after taking damage, which now impacts characters who are goatified

1st Bullet: This Feature is either barely noticeable or it doesn’t work. I tested this and it seems like the consecutive jumps are at the same height as the first. I kind of like this change because it discourages bunny hopping in theory, but it doesn’t seem to make a noticeable difference in practice.

2nd Bullet: I don’t think this change is necessary anymore. I believe that TTK currently is fast enough to punish people who sprint away. Keep in mind, these changes were made in November, before the December TTK patch, where it took too long to kill a player. This change brings a huge inconsistency to sprinting. No one likes a runner, but Sprinting isn’t good for moving offensively, and even worse for moving defensively or retreating. It only takes one person to slow sprinting down to about walking speed. Being slowed down while sprinting is very frustrating. 

This is another reason why Brawlers are bad, and it’s because they are denied almost completely when they are slowed while sprinting. Brawlers are too slow when it comes to movement in general. They are good for flanking and 1v1s but other classes like Nightcap do their jobs so much better.

3rd Bullet: This is also an outdated change. What the note basically means is that you lose jump height for taking damage, which is really punishing. Many times this results in players struggling to jump over obstacles on the map.

Here’s an example: One game, I caught up to a Cactus as Super Brainz on the 1st Objective of Loggy Acres. The cactus jumped over a pipe so I tried to follow him, but I couldn’t get over because a Drone shot me, reducing my jump height, and keeping me from getting over the pipe. By the time I got over the pipe, there was a Potato mine already armed and waiting for me. I died because I couldn’t jump over a pipe when I otherwise could if I wasn’t taking damage.

The problem is Inconsistency: If sprinting doesn’t guarantee that you go fast, if jumping doesn’t guarantee that you get over obstacles, and if the general movement can’t help you avoid damage, the gameplay becomes frustrating and not fun. 

Most of these experiences I had were in 8 v 8, so imagine this happening in 12 v 12.

How to fix this?: I would Revert Sprinting speed reduction and Jump height reduction when taking damage entirely, and maybe make it so consecutive jumps lose a more noticeable amount of height. 

Bunny hopping getting nerfed would probably not go well, so that’s why I think buffing all classes Walking speed to be on par to walking with the Speedy upgrade currently would be good. I personally think the ideal Walking Speed is with the Speedy upgrade. Faster Walking Speed means faster Forward walking, which could mean more shooting and less sprinting when chasing someone, and in my experience with Speedy this is true.  This would benefit the gameplay, and especially classes like Brawlers and Healers.

6 Replies

  • @Pheesley Good write-up. I was going to say bullets are dodgeable because of bunny-hopping, but you spoke about buffing movement but nerfing jump height. Still, many like bunny-hopping, and in conjunction with sprinting, movement abilitites having lower cooldowns and wider, more open maps, I think it's fine.
  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    @shurikeninjaFor me, it just feels boring that the only ways to dodge are spamming jump and using abilities, the movement feels too limited. If Popcap left bunny hopping alone I wouldn't mind, but it should not be one of the only ways to dodge.

    The reason why people like bunny hopping is because they can actually dodge with it. If you don't bunny hop you are likely at a huge disadvantage, because strafing certainly can't carry you.

    This question isn't necessarily directed towards you but I need to say it. If I can dodge by jumping and using abilities, why not just make the walking faster so I can dodge by strafing too? The TTK isn't low where you can die in .5 seconds, so movement and dodging obviously matter. I guess they lowered walking speed because of the addition of Sprinting, but it doesn't blend very well with the higher TTK. With the addition of Sprinting, I'd argue the game plays faster and you can be more aggressive, so I don't see why walking is so slow that it can't react well to a sprinting Player who is being aggressive.

    It doesn't make sense that I can constantly jump with no penalty for spamming jump, but I can't move left or right fast enough to save my life! 

  • @Pheesley Yeah I agree with you. Nerf jumping but buff strafing. Their excuse would probably be because it's a kids game it would be hard for them to aim and shoot and fast-moving targets, but if bunny-hopping is a thing, then thar argument doesn't make sense.
  • Indeed. I feel if they made base movement a bit faster while keeping sprint speed about the same (or slightly faster than it is now), and get jumping while fighting under control, it would help with a lot of these issues. Bunny hoppers are annoying to deal with in any game (even though it was huge in Quake back in the day), but it feels worse here due to the fact that without it, you can't evade so well. I've seen Oaks bunny hop (which when you're a treetop Acorn, is extremely annoying), which looks ridiculous and can't help much considering their size, but I think it's second nature to many people in the game now due to the inability to dodge well without it.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    @Iron_Guard8I think Sprinting would feel faster if there wasn't a Speed reduction for taking damage. And bunny hopping maybe a little crazy, especially with small classes like Nightcap, Imp, and Acorn. I dont think it should be nerfed hard but since the jump height is so high, i think there should be a small reduction in height when spamming jump.

  • The movement in this game is full of unnecessary mechanics. Besides the Sprinting and Jumping Nerfs, the other mechanic is what I will call "Skipping" to make it simple. "Skipping" is basically spamming jump while sprinting which makes you go faster, similar to Minecraft. I dont know why this is in a shooter game, especially since no other shooter game seems to share this mechanic. "Skipping" doesnt make the movement unique to other shooter games, but rather makes it more frustrating to catch sprinters. If you dont use this mechanic and someone does, you are at a disadvantage. Its a bad mechanic that any class can use, and it hurts the gameplay more than helps it. It should be gone along with the Sprint nerf.

    No one should be able spam jump while sprinting in the first place. Sprinting should get you where you need to be faster, it should not be a reliable tool for evasion.

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