Plants Suck
Yeah, I feel better in my heart now I've expressed my opinion about this side. It isn't even one class that sucks, it's all of them. Fix Rose Buff Sunflower Fix Chomper Buff Cactus Buff Peashoo...
Forum Discussion
The plants are fine and the zen cactus definitely does not need any buffs nor splash damage. If you wanna deal a lot of damage as the cactus that's what the camo cactus is for. some of the zombies might need a "slight" nerf mainly electro brains and super brainz's twister attack but plants are fine and don't need any buffs. it's time to get good and learn how to use the characters since plants can't relay on rose to win the game for them anymore
So I exclusively play Turf Takeover when it comes to multiplayer. I know that some classes may have an ability or two who isn't useful in Takeover but I'd like someone to point out which zombie abilities are useless in direct combat. Only one I can think of is maybe the scientist's heal beam and the All-Star's decoy shield. Just about every other zombie ability is useful in direct confrontation.
Now let me list which plant abilities suck in direct combat:
-Pea shooter gatling
-Sunflower beam and heal beam
-Chomper burrow, spikeweed
-Cactus mine, Wallnut
-Citron Shield, EMP, and even his charge attack
-Rose's energy form
The thing you should notice is that plants have a lot of support/defensive abilities while zombies are mostly attack/offensive. This is fine and dandy but the defensive/support abilities don't match the power of the offensive abilities. Let me break down why those abilities I mentioned are weak.
Pea shooter's gatling and sunflower's beam gives you high damage in exchange for being rooted. HOWEVER! Dead Beard and Engineer get the same thing PLUS a def bonus. Now I know if you hit their heads you do more but honestly why do they get a defense boost and the pea shooter and sunflower doesn't? Side note: I'd love if the sunflower got an ability similar to Deadbeard.
Heal beams are very support oriented but since both sunflower and scientist have one then it's fine. However Sunflower's heal flower can't heal as many people at once as the scientist's heal station. Sure the scientist can only pick one but he's got a deadly shotgun and teleport to compensate.
Chomper-- I think everyone heard already the faults with him. Honestly compared to SuperBrainz he should get a buff. He has less HP, no range, Ability lock+speed reduction+inability to bite whenever he burrows under and pops up on someone. Sure it's an instant kill vanquish but not a single zombie ability leaves someone as vunerable as chomper is when he uses it.
Spike weed and potato mine. Probably the only two trap abilities in the game and it's for plants. No wait scratch that engineer has a trap ability and it's a stun that lasts 3-4 secs? It sure lasts longer than E.M Peach that's for sure. But wait the engineer's stun mine arms faster than Cactus' potato mine and can be used in combat. Cactus not so much. At least the spikeweed arms instantly but any zombie caught can shoot you still unlike GW1.
Cactus's wallnut isn't remotely as helpful as All-star's shield. First splash attacks still hurt you, second it just encourages people to take head shots, third you can't even stack them which would be really neat if you could and make it even harder to head shot you. So what's the point of them again? Even the metal one isn't that helpful since you can accidentally damage it and splash attacks still hit you even if you are directly behind it. Supposedly the Citron's shield can provide cover for other plants but it is very weak and splash damage still get through. I was hoping that his shield would at least be as strong as a wallnut.
Rose's Enigma reminds me of the Scientist's warp and while it's nice she can do damage with it, this ability is her only one that damages others. Everything else is relies on her weapon to get kills which already got nerfed. That goat ability is a tough one to nail and definitely takes skill but when a zombie is a goat they can repeatedly charge around until it wears off, making it difficult to nail any with your homing shots. Now sure support classes shouldn't be the main dps but why do zombie support classes get to be so strong? ( engineer & scientist )
Now I can go on with things like DeadBeard's OP, SuperBrainz's OP (especially the Elctro one), how weak Rose is, how much weaker Citron is, how helpless the cactus is up close, seriously DeadBeard is far more bad * than she is.
Corn is fine, I prefer if his weapons worked like the All-stars though. That would make more sense than having a reload. Imp is fine he's an glass cannon but even his rate of fire is higher than Corn's... huh...
Plants really DO suck!
@Redlove108 wrote:So I exclusively play Turf Takeover when it comes to multiplayer. I know that some classes may have an ability or two who isn't useful in Takeover but I'd like someone to point out which zombie abilities are useless in direct combat. Only one I can think of is maybe the scientist's heal beam and the All-Star's decoy shield. Just about every other zombie ability is useful in direct confrontation.
Now let me list which plant abilities suck in direct combat:
-Pea shooter gatling
-Sunflower beam and heal beam
-Chomper burrow, spikeweed
-Cactus mine, Wallnut
-Citron Shield, EMP, and even his charge attack
-Rose's energy form
The thing you should notice is that plants have a lot of support/defensive abilities while zombies are mostly attack/offensive. This is fine and dandy but the defensive/support abilities don't match the power of the offensive abilities. Let me break down why those abilities I mentioned are weak.
Pea shooter's gatling and sunflower's beam gives you high damage in exchange for being rooted. HOWEVER! Dead Beard and Engineer get the same thing PLUS a def bonus. Now I know if you hit their heads you do more but honestly why do they get a defense boost and the pea shooter and sunflower doesn't? Side note: I'd love if the sunflower got an ability similar to Deadbeard.
Heal beams are very support oriented but since both sunflower and scientist have one then it's fine. However Sunflower's heal flower can't heal as many people at once as the scientist's heal station. Sure the scientist can only pick one but he's got a deadly shotgun and teleport to compensate.
Chomper-- I think everyone heard already the faults with him. Honestly compared to SuperBrainz he should get a buff. He has less HP, no range, Ability lock+speed reduction+inability to bite whenever he burrows under and pops up on someone. Sure it's an instant kill vanquish but not a single zombie ability leaves someone as vunerable as chomper is when he uses it.
Spike weed and potato mine. Probably the only two trap abilities in the game and it's for plants. No wait scratch that engineer has a trap ability and it's a stun that lasts 3-4 secs? It sure lasts longer than E.M Peach that's for sure. But wait the engineer's stun mine arms faster than Cactus' potato mine and can be used in combat. Cactus not so much. At least the spikeweed arms instantly but any zombie caught can shoot you still unlike GW1.
Cactus's wallnut isn't remotely as helpful as All-star's shield. First splash attacks still hurt you, second it just encourages people to take head shots, third you can't even stack them which would be really neat if you could and make it even harder to head shot you. So what's the point of them again? Even the metal one isn't that helpful since you can accidentally damage it and splash attacks still hit you even if you are directly behind it. Supposedly the Citron's shield can provide cover for other plants but it is very weak and splash damage still get through. I was hoping that his shield would at least be as strong as a wallnut.
Rose's Enigma reminds me of the Scientist's warp and while it's nice she can do damage with it, this ability is her only one that damages others. Everything else is relies on her weapon to get kills which already got nerfed. That goat ability is a tough one to nail and definitely takes skill but when a zombie is a goat they can repeatedly charge around until it wears off, making it difficult to nail any with your homing shots. Now sure support classes shouldn't be the main dps but why do zombie support classes get to be so strong? ( engineer & scientist )
Now I can go on with things like DeadBeard's OP, SuperBrainz's OP (especially the Elctro one), how weak Rose is, how much weaker Citron is, how helpless the cactus is up close, seriously DeadBeard is far more bad * than she is.
Corn is fine, I prefer if his weapons worked like the All-stars though. That would make more sense than having a reload. Imp is fine he's an glass cannon but even his rate of fire is higher than Corn's... huh...
Plants really DO suck!
I like it when players agree, it shows me they're unbiased.
You did make a slight miscalculation if you tested the damage received when rooted as Pea Gatling or Sunflower, you do actually get about 33% damage mitigation, now compare this to Turbo Twister who gets 66% and has twice the health.
Things don't add up, and stun abilities are useless if the other person can fire through it.
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All Star shield can be used to block Chompers burrowing, it actually has a use. In GW1 I saved myself many times from this, you can also easily time Imp Punt to explode in a Chompers face as he chomps you this way by bouncing it off the dummy shield. Also many times I've put them down to completely block damage to allow for a revive.
Scientist heal beam has a use also, just not for yourself but that's no different from Sunflower and she can't change hers out.
@Zaheen1337 wrote:I like it when players agree, it shows me they're unbiased.
You did make a slight miscalculation if you tested the damage received when rooted as Pea Gatling or Sunflower, you do actually get about 33% damage mitigation, now compare this to Turbo Twister who gets 66% and has twice the health.
Things don't add up, and stun abilities are useless if the other person can fire through it.
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All Star shield can be used to block Chompers burrowing, it actually has a use. In GW1 I saved myself many times from this, you can also easily time Imp Punt to explode in a Chompers face as he chomps you this way by bouncing it off the dummy shield. Also many times I've put them down to completely block damage to allow for a revive.
Scientist heal beam has a use also, just not for yourself but that's no different from Sunflower and she can't change hers out.
I just found out last night that rooted plants have some damage mitigation which is nice but I wish they had more or the zombies have less. It is really is annoying when you spot someone on their Engineer turret or DeadBeard Cannon and try to take them out before they spot you but can't even if you use the pea gatling or the sunbeam.
I remember the All-Star shield being useful for that. Never did try that trick of Imp Punting off of it to save myself. Things like this I bet developers know but players really don't and many feel they just "suck." Last night I found out the Base Citron has a small splash but here's the kicker you can't tell when you fire it. Only after wiggling it around at zombie's feet will you see the splash and range. There's no animation to indicate it has some splash.
Plants like Chomper and Citron really need a good terrain to fight in. If the terrain favors snipers like the Moon base does you'll be plants dealing with DeadBeard, SuperBrainz and Soldier. While your plant counter would be Cactus and Citron? Maybe Peashooter with the right variant? I haven't tried Law pea or Agent Pea at range yet. What sucks out of these 3 plants only the Pea shooter does better up close while out of those 3 Zombies Brains and Soldier do really well up close and Dead Beard can survive in a barrel if needed. This scenario also happens in the ice stage (who's name I forgot).
I'm essentially putting DeadBeard vs Catcus; SuperBrainz vs Citron and Pea Shooter vs Soldier.
Pea Shooter vs Soldier -- classic setup, perfectly balanced.
DeadBeard vs Catcus -- While having some difference their main similarities (primary weapon and drone). You'll immediately see DeadBeard wins out. Last night I tried out the DeadBeard variant with the shark laser. I was shocked at how fast his projectiles fly. I don't think a single Cactus projectile flies that fast. It made leading and hitting my target so easy. First game, we dominated and I got over 50 kills. I never focused on Deadbeard, I didn't have any character upgrades. I had mostly played plant side thus far. Also the Drone has 20hp, faster projectiles, easier controls (seemingly), and his little barrage bomb drops them all at once while the Cactus drone is 1 after the other with a delayed explosion. Now the Cactus drone bombardment much stronger damage wise (70 was the highest number I saw) but is also easier to dodge. The Parrot's bombardment had the height damage of 25 I saw so far. Except it was capable of surrounding a plant and killing it pretty effectively. To balance this I say the Artichoke Drone should match the Parrot Drone while giving the same projectile speed and controls to the Garlic Drone. That or nerf the parrot's controls and projectile speed to match the garlic drone.
Now I've used Cactus before and I can tell you no matter what variant I used I was never able to get that many kills so effortlessly. I have to really thank the shark laser's projectile speed. It made leading my shoots soo easy.
Citron vs SuperBrainz -- Now these two shouldn't be facing off against each other but the problem is no one else has a beam to counter the SuperBrainz but Citron. A lot of SuperBrainz players like to use him as a sniper especially the Electro one. Despite his size they find good spots to hide and no one can really close the distance and if you get too close you are screwed. Pea shooter has a chance but it's a risk and you'll take damage getting to him anyway. Now Corn is suppose to counter SuperBrainz but when you got one hanging back as far as DeadBeard, sniping at Plants from range and just trolling them with his beams; Corn just has no way to close the gap and do the fighting. Corn actually better counters Super-Star than he does for SuperBrainz.
So you are left with a Peashooter trying to close the distance, a cactus trying to snipe back with no real protection because her walls don't work against the beams. They'll just aim for the head. So with the Catcus lower HP, slower projectile and having to lead her target she can't snipe the SuperBrainz as good as a DeadBeard would. Which leaves us to the only plant that can keep the SuperBrainz from beam trolling and that is Citron. He can do it fine but he'll never earn any XP doing it because with his weapon overheating too fast and his low damage tick it'll take 2-3 overheats to finish one off. By then he's turned his attention to you or someone else has snuck up on you which surprisingly happens more often than you would think.
"Citron isn't too bad, or at least the best option for me at this point. His overheat it too short. I'm not sure how much damage you can do with one pull, but I know it's not much. Maybe 125-150 with all crits. EMPeach is extremely helpful, but a decently slow cool down, so after you use it once, be prepared for the super brainz onslaught."
Citron isnt too bad in fact. He is very good. He's tank, has a good CC, splash damage and the balls gives you map pressure and makes him good at rushing objectives. No one know the regular has splash damage (either me, i ddnt know since 3 days ago and just played the frozen one) and its very easy to deal with Imps cause of it. The only buff could help him without making OP is a slightly quickly transion FROM ball TO regular. But still i think is very balanced class, and more likely other classes need to be buffed on the plant side. Like the poor sunflowers ones. Pls honor everytime you see a sunflower main and make a statue 8)"Rose's Enigma reminds me of the Scientist's warp "
I dislike the fact Rose Enigma has a huge delay of time when transforming that makes her vulnerable. I would like her Arcane Enigma to be fixed and give you quickly invicibility.
