Popcap Live 6/24/2016 feedback

Still, last patch i couldn't won a single match with more than 3 corn in my team. Wonder why.

Foot Soldier has two consecutive rocket leap and is much more safe to play (but at the same time much less rewarding.. at least i admit it.. foot soldier is so boring) and you can shoot while casting and  whenever you want,  while Husk Hop can be easily dodged if you sidestep properly (although the animation is kinda strange and should be more visible)
His stuck shots.. for some weird reason.. it's harder than zpg.

And yeah he has 25hp. such a pity are completely useless considered he is a giant * hitbox slow walking.

The only thing that Foot Soldier should be jealous of Corn is butter barrage. And not because is op, but just because Smoke Grenade is the most worhtless skill in the game.

I still agree that he doesn't need more damage. But coming here and do bad comparation and throwing numbers without logical explanation is kinda bad.
Although Corn is a great character, but need a lot of practice to use properly his skillset, but not another buff.
I prefer if they buff chompers, cactus and roses...
People will spam citron even if they revert everything.. because there are 3/7 class that need an help. at least for variations.

---

@UoLFrozenChrome wrote:

Still, last patch i couldn't won a single match with more than 3 corn in my team. Wonder why.

Foot Soldier has two consecutive rocket leap and is much more safe to play (but at the same time much less rewarding.. at least i admit it.. foot soldier is so boring) and you can shoot while casting and  whenever you want,  while Husk Hop can be easily dodged if you sidestep properly (although the animation is kinda strange and should be more visible)
His stuck shots.. for some weird reason.. it's harder than zpg.

And yeah he has 25hp. such a pity are completely useless considered he is a giant * hitbox slow walking.

The only thing that Foot Soldier should be jealous of Corn is butter barrage. And not because is op, but just because Smoke Grenade is the most worhtless skill in the game.

I still agree that he doesn't need more damage. But coming here and do bad comparation and throwing numbers without logical explanation is kinda bad.
Although Corn is a great character, but need a lot of practice to use properly his skillset, but not another buff.
I prefer if they buff chompers, cactus and roses...
People will spam citron even if they revert everything.. because there are 3/7 class that need an help. at least for variations.

---

Actually, this isn't even the only change, I am going to edit this thread.

Also skill and corn....are you okay?  He is the most beginner friendly character, he doesn't need any practice whatsoever. 

Look, they have practically the same rate of fire, except Corn now has more damage.  And they also do the same amount of damage before this buff.

And yes, Foot Soldier has 2 rocket leaps, but I was comparing the regular foot soldier to regular corn, not including alternate abilities. Who knows what they will add for Corn's Husk Hop replacement.  And Husk Hop isn't easy to dodge, the thing activates immediately and even if you sidestep the corn homes in on you unless you sprint tackled away or something.  Also Huskhop jumps MUCH higher than a single rocket leap from the Soldier, maybe even as high as the rocket jump.

Shuck Shot hard to aim?  It is the same as ZPG practically, except two projectiles that do 125 damage each.

Their move speed is barely even different, I guess the Foot Soldier felt faster, but they were identical to be honest.

And hitbox?  Their heads are almost the same size, corn's is just barely any taller.  Isn't like the Soldier's helmet shields him from damage. 

Well.. all star nerf.. i'm kinda confused. I found him one of the worst class in the game. Bad compared to s.brainz, bad compared to citron..

bad movespeed penalty.. meh

Maybe people are spamming it because he can counter citron with imp punt.. well doesn't need a nerf for it...

Honestly? Most of their changes seem fair enough.

I'm not a fan of the proposed corn buff either, but with that, you might see some of the terrible FotM Citron "players" swap back to Corn (or another class) so the TRUE Citron mains can express themselves better. 

All Star's overheat change is probably minimal, so nothing really to worry about there if you know when to let your weapon cool down a bit. He'll still be deadly to citron players as his burst makes short work of them.

Buffing all of Super Brainz's punches will lessen beam use, and make him a LOT deadlier at close range brawls. This is also probably also meant to further encourage players to NOT pop Turbo Twister the moment they see a bunch of enemies.

And to finally reply to the OP:

Honestly, Corn and Soldier have two different purposes now. Corn uses more direct approaches to combat as he's slow and has a big hitbox. Soldier is more ambush friendly - and can traverse the map with his superior mobility. Soldier has a smaller frame, so he's harder to target and can slip past defenses unless he's being followed and tracked by an observant plant player. Soldier also has more class variety, which lets him fit many more roles than his plant counterpart. ZPG (and to a latter extent multi-rocket) feel easier to use than shuck shot and usually net better results.

Does the soldier feel inferior to Corn sometimes? Sure. Some of his variants are underpowered, and definitely wouldn't win against a Corn player in a close range 1v1 situation. His smoke grenade is underwhelming, but it has its niche uses. His other abilities are strong though.

If people would like to discuss any of these changes, you can join my stream at:

twitch.tv/iiice_cold

But also, I will be posting a thread way later on how I think Pop Cap should balance their games, as well as the future of Garden Warfare.

I already posted my full thought in the same reddit post that proposed the balance change but in short:

• Why corn buff
• Why no citron nerf
• Why no parrot nerf
• All-star overheat upgrade nerf is...Not very good for the already bad variant of all-star,do compensation buff for those plz

Balance is simply gonna be worse need patch if it go though considering we will get Two OP class in the plant team instead of one. Which is a shame considering the rest of the balance change didn't seem so bad.

It's funny that they think nerfing the All-Star's overheat upgrade will effect their killstreaks when it really won't. heck most All-star players don't even try to use their main weapon most of the time. The big killstreaks are due to the easy to use Imp punts which instantly kills (aside against citrons) and sprint tackles that all the all-stars instantly spam ;p

But thankfully they are buffing the battery on zombopolis because it is super easy for plants to win it (i've only won it once ever with zombies) it's super easy for pea shooters to just rush in and throw a chilly bomb or a cactus using a garlic drone to easily sneak it in and just shoot at the battery as the zombie players usually always fail to notice it.

Thanks Screenhog... for the post.

@ScreenhogRSnail

"He is the most beginner friendly character" No sorry, i disagree. He's so friendly, that having more than 3 on your team increases your chance of lose?? There's a reason why i hate Kernel Corn average players. BBQ corn is a beginner friendly character.. fire dot and perfect accuracy. I played all of other Corn last patch and it took me a while to understand how to use properly their skill-set.... against the zombie team.
Don't compare numbers, don't make theory, balance is about performance. Two character could be perfectly the same in the opponent factions but have different rewards, simply because, while the character is the same, the opponent team is different. Even after the patch come out i haven't saw a single Mob/Default Corn on the podium.. and you know.. BBQ corn is not even that spammed on Origin.. well he never was.

Yeah he has more ammo, but the accuracy, even after the buff is not close to Foot Soldier. Not saying that they deserve the same accuracy, Kernel is more an assault class.. not a rooftcamper, so as long the bullet dispersion isn't so bad i'm fine with that.

The Husk Hop is much easier to dodge, if you predict that, the point is you know that is going to husk hop before husk hop happens, forcing him to do and continuesly sidestepping in 1vs1. It's hard to dodge only if you're in his 5 metres near him. Not like you're 5 metres near him all the match. And who cares if you can jump higher, that is not the point of the skill. You can't camp roofts with Corns, unless you're BBQ.. The animation is incredible slow, he's almost a free-kill while husk-hopping. I'll just shooting while in that animation. Conclusion? Husk Hop sometimes grant you an easy and underserved kill.. but most of time when a scientists or s.brainz approaching you.. you press it in the panic and after the animation is done (or in the while) you're a free-kill

I compare Rocket Leap, because it's the only used one ^^. The animation is much quicker and two consecutive rocket leaps makes foot soldier the most safe to play character. Is one of the first character that i could afford tbh, but at the same time, the more i play him, doesn't reward much more compared to Corn, i admit that. Foot Soldier gameplay is so boring and incredible low rewarding.. this is a problem. And maybe could be not that thing, but you can aim what you want while Rocket Leaping.

Well actually Stuck Shot is not the same of ZPG, but it's really hard to explain for me, there's a topic written by MLG Seal or something that explain it, the animation, the projectile, the angle of shooting seems a little different, although is much less useful compared to zpg, simply because when zpg excels at killing rooted plants, citrons or immobile plants, stuck shots find hard places when zombies are generally smaller or much more mobile (all star can tackle or dummy, s.brainz just jump and dodge, and so on) the things you hit the most with it are Mechs and BigBoltBlasting Turret.

The only thing that i'm kinda jealous when i play Foot Soldier is the worthless smoke green, it's so boring and useless. Not like Butter Burrage is incredible better, it's incredible easy to dodge too, but at least it's funny to play and you can use that in smart ways to zoning.. (you can do the same with smoke screen.. but the result is so low that is almost useless)

The problem is not only the movespeed... but the fact has half his hitbox.. the angle of shoot makes him shoot through some covers with some part of his body covered, while Corn shoot from his stomach, so it's impossible to shoot from the roofts or camping, plus movespeed, plus two consecutive rocket leaps..plua camping on roofts, plus stay far away and do good damage by stay safe at range... this is the problem.

I always found Corn a 4fun to play character. He's a giant hitbox with skills that works mostly at close range or in specific situation, and while his role is not camping on roofts but played as an assault class he has both a giant hitbox and he's slow too. His role and his skillset and default weapon makes this character being proficient only in specific situations. And no. The difference is not "barely" noticeable".  IS decently noticeable also because Corn is fat too. The movespeed is the most strongest value in any moba/strategic game.
Look S.Brainz, he was considered bad before the patch, then they increased the movespeed on turbo twist for a minimal armor reduction nerf, and while all people thought it was a nerf.. i know it wasn't.. was a huge buff. A little bit numbers on his movespeed were enough to get all people in this community going literally crazy.. compare him with chompers while their kit are completely differents, and ask incredible various nerfs.. like remove of beam or turbo twist do 0 damage.. like wtf. I blame the devs for the rose nerfs.. but i blame community too because they want every single character to become rose v. 2.0

My point is... these two characters.. as long as you play them, they give you different rewards.
A default Corn can give you much more reward than a Default Foot Soldier. But a Foot Soldier, while doesn't give a lot of it because a static/simple gameplay, is much more easier and accessible to pick up. When i say is easy to pick up.. i don't necessarily need pick up.. going on infinity killing spree and reach everytime top scoreboard.. i mean... an average foot soldier player... played by an average player.. seems MUCH more carryable than a regular Corn player. I mean that a footsoldier kit and gameplay is much less open to mistake.. so even when you're bad at the game (and most of community is) most of people do actually.. enough decent to get carryed with him.
This is the first pvz i play so far.. even if i bought the game on this acc, my brother played the first game.. and in my newbie experience i can tell you i had a lots of problem with Corn last patch, so much i started to hate Corn, Corn average players, call them autistic and sometimes.. when i'm losing and i have more than 3 corn on my team.. i just tilt.. or switch to citron to carry hard.

The point of their balance... they just see data.. they see a lots of Corn (not BBQ) doing bad. instead of asking reasoning why they do bad, they just watch data and act.. instead of TRANSLATING the data.

And no sorry.. saying that Kernel Corn is a friendly user character is a big insult, he's not.. and that is the reason while you console players have the most problem last patch.
I made thousands of threads and post about it and i'll continue say it. Kernel WAS  bad before you know perfectly the game. On pc the situation was incredible balanced and relaxed because Corn was low spammed.. instead we had Citrons, Chompers and Peashooters used a lot. (was really hard to have more than 1 Corn tbh)

Citron was maybe bad with the animations, but was a great answers to Mechs, Imps, Scientists and S:Brainz.
Peashooter was a good answer to Imps and Scientists (thanks to Hype and splash Damage) and the gaitling (much more affordable and safe in this game since Foot Soldier is less spammed and less zpg comes to you) is a good answer to s.brainz giant hitbox and Mechs.

Chomper.. same. No need to aim imps.. just breathe and he dies. Spikeweed block Turbo twist and his tankyness is decent to deal with scientists burst damage (except zoologist, which deserved a nerf)

Why i made this discussion with you? My point is.. i played a couple of matches at my friend's home and i heard from many console players.. that sometimes.. plant team were made by 3 from even 6 corn! Corn in a situation where Imps, S.brainz and Scientists are the most meta things.. simply doesn't work that much.

Still.. i AGREE with you. He doesn't need to be changed. Corn is a perfect character to carry games, not if you're expert at the game, i wasn't saying is a really hard character.. but that  you have to know the match-ups against the common zombies threads.. for example you have to stuck shot and predict the scientists warp.. not just stuck shot him.. because he will dodge that!

He doesn't need any buff! he's perfect. A character that reward you a lot once mastered and not easy to pick up.
They should make rose stronger as her beta form (except maybe for time snare lenght, she was considered UP there! and know, after a small buff she's considered magically "fine", this is hypocrisy) and adjust cactuses and Chompers. They have so many bad variations and they need new skills to work perfectly in the new mode like herbaul assault. They just need rework.. new skill, but they need something to work properly.