7 years ago

Post "Balance" Predictions

I typically try to support and be patient with most things in this game/series but I'm baffled at the first set of "Balancing" nerfs/buffs that were just announced.

If you missed the plans:

Nightcap:

Nightcap's nerfs I disagree with most of all. I think her Fung Fu was fine and her invisibility needed a longer cool down. Her ranged primary damage should've been nerfed and other than that, she was fine with me. As soon as more people master their characters and unlock their full potential (making it easier to kill NC), it will be obvious she's the very definition of nerfed in the ground.
My main issue with this "balance" is that newcomers (on the 18th) would've had a character that was noob friendly... Now, we'll LOSE many of those (NEW to PvZ) people.

(Disclaimer: I don't play her and never plan to).

Oak:

Oak's channeling issue (I didn't know existed) obviously needed to be "fixed." I don't see how Treeject was ever an issue... but.... okay? Take that away, too. The sap nerf.... how exactly will that work? Now everyone will be able to avoid it?

Here's my kicker.... I think SOLO Space Station is already stronger than Solo Oak and he's not given similar nerfs? I don't think this will cost us newcomers but don't understand the logic.

(Disclaimer: I do play Oak/Acorn and if the Sap doesn't completely deteriorate with the balance, might main A/O. That said, I might main Space Station/Cadet, too, so there's no ulterior motive here).

Corn:

I don't have much to say other than he needs to mirror the damage of Soldier (who DID get a damage increase). I would've improved the Butter differently and mirrored the Soldier's damage buff... but I'm anxious to see how this plays out.

Soldier:

I think we missed the mark here. Everyone complaining about rate of fire needs to see his fully upgraded potential:

Why upgrade his rate of fire AND damage? Now he'll be stronger than Corn (by FAR). I wish rate of fire would've been slightly nerfed for Corn and damage buffed to both. I predict Soldier will be VERY popular here real soon.
I think this is the second worst "balance" of the group.

(Disclaimer: I do not play Corn or Soldier.)

All Star:

I don't know if these buffs will bring All Star to the point he should be. What happened to our tank in GW1? I mained him then. I will say I think his rate of fire should be similar to Corn, Soldier, Sunflower, etc.... I'd like to see all rapid fire characters with a similar rate of fire (damage would be class dependent and vary much more than rate of fire). I think they missed the mark by not increasing the damage of the Imp Punt, too. Bring back the traditional damage! I predict he will be much closer to a balanced character but still not where he "should" be.
(Disclaimer: I would LOVE to main All Star again but don't see him ever being his former glory self again.)

All in all, I think the nerfs came too early and Nightcap will be ruined. I think Oak will be much weaker than Space Station, if the Sap is nerfed too hard. I can't fathom taking balance requests this early on and not taking into account max ranked characters. I feel like this "balance" pass was geared toward entry level characters and is a HUGE STEP BACK.

Just my opinion and interested to see it play out.

42 Replies

FootSoldier9908
7 years ago
I agree. NC and Oak needed no changes. In regards to characters that came from the GW series, I simply do not understand. Those characters had years of gameplay and were all balanced well for their roles. Why were they brought into this game so weak and useless.
newbebop
7 years ago
@spIash_damage Totally agree that they missed what was wrong with All-Star imp punt. The problem wasn't whether or not it missed. The problem was that even nestled snugly against a plant, it just feels uselessly weak. I only use it when I have unloaded into a player and need to do just enough damage to finish them off.
CRAAAZZYChomper
7 years ago
Nightcap needed ONE ability/attack nerfed, not ALL of them. Soldier is now more new player friendly.
Space Station needed the nerf more, but Oak ate it for her. As a Citron player, I can say Crater Maker destroys your shield in a second. Broken ability that breaks shields.
RockScorpion384
7 years ago
Fung fu was NOT fine lol. It insta kills every zombie in its radius, its easy to pull off since u have stealth to get in close, and once shes activated it she becomes extremely hard to hit because her hitbox constantly shifts and can move so theres no running away from it. One of her upgrades also allows her to move even faster and jump during it making her even more ridiculous to kill.
Theres a difference between a low skill-floor character, one that new players can pick up and play, and a pubstomp character who anyone can instantly pick up and dominate with. Nightcap was the definition of a pubstomp character, low skill, high reward. New players can have fun with a low skill required character sure, but they shouldnt be able to dominate the game. Otherwise whats the point in learning to play high skill characters when you can get more value by playing the easier ones.
solo oak is vastly superior to solo station, i dont know what youve been smoking. Solo oak has more health, more range, more damage than a station. All station has is cratermaker which is amazing dont get me wrong, but is easy to avoid just sprint away and she wont be able to keep up. If youve tried playing spacestation in pve you would understand. Even the ai are clever enough to just walk away from you when you use it.
A 4 man station is really strong but thats the point 🤦🏻‍♂️ these are classes that are supposed to destroy when u get 4 players working together. People saying things like ‘a full space station is broken’ clearly dont understand how these multi-people classes are designed to work. If they werent strong there would be no point in teaming up ypu may as well run around solo. Which is the exact opposite of oak. It is always better to run around as solo oaks than team up because oak is just so good.
i agree in soldier and corn tho.
DarkLanX
7 years ago
To be honest, I'm quite satisfied with the Nerf on NC. However if it were me to decide I'll increase NC's HP a bit to compensate the reduced damage by allowing him to fight a little bit longer with his primary weapon.
jayalder
7 years ago
@spIash_damage wrote:
My main issue with this "balance" is that newcomers (on the 18th) would've had a character that was noob friendly... Now, we'll LOSE many of those (NEW to PvZ) people.
(Disclaimer: I don't play her and never plan to).
Balance was and is necessary, for FAIR gameplay! New players are going to hate playing against Nightcap. How many new and old players are going to continue playing, if balance wasn’t made? You can disagree with the changes, but it doesn’t change the fact she needed balanced; Fung Fu was too strong, and invisibility is already a very powerful tool. Why did she need a strong long range attack, a powerful AOE ability that makes her very hard to kill, and multiple charges of invisibility? This doesn’t even account for her upgrades! There is no justification.
Gowron248
7 years ago
@spIash_damage If anything balance changes are coming too late. Most max rank abilites aren't even worth taking and you can easily see/read all of them on reddit. I have multiple characters maxed out and for multiple characters I don't use any of their maxed out upgrades because a lot of them are garb'o. The only max rank one I use currently is the crit on laser for Citron, but Peached (the longer stun duration upgrade) is still my favorite upgrade on him.

I personally would love to see small balance patches on a 2 week basis until the game feels more right rather than large balance patches every month or more. The game's in a poor balance state and should be addressed quicker and if it's balanced every 2 weeks you can fix over buffs/nerfs the following patch. It's just better in my opinion.

As for Solider, I feel like he's currently worse than Corn. I have Corn max level but I can't find myself willing to level Solider he's just so bad it feels unplayable almost. I am glad they buffed Corn for sure because he still sucks but Solider, dear lord... Maybe the buffs will be too much, especially with the fire rate upgrade, we will have to wait and see.

I completely agree with the oak and Nightcap nerfs though, except I don't really agree with how they nerfed sap. Instead of putting a delay on it I feel the damage should of just been nerfed. That's my opinion though.

I also feel Superbrains should of been nerfed along side Nightcap, but aye. We will see what happens. I say this as someone that plays a lot of Superbrains.
Gowron248
7 years ago
@jayalder Yeah pretty much. Nightcap is the main reason my friends stopped playing this game and probably will never come back because the character eats new players alive.
spIash_damage
7 years ago
@RockScorpion384 @Gowron248 What characters do you play most?
spIash_damage
7 years ago
How did this thread get turned into a debate with NO predictions?