Re: 3 Cards that need a NERF IMO

I dont see how it's a card advantage... you can put sweet potato in front of any minion. It's a low health walnut that can also move the enemy to the lane... it will also buff cards like muscle sprout to make them be able to kill def end easily. On top of that, it leaves you plenty of sun to play another minion the same turn giving yourself card advantage. Don't know if you can tell, i love that card haha

Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there isn't one? Just because you can't play the cards you wanted that turn doesn't mean it's unfair.

Is it strong? Sure, but I've won many games by turn 5 without ever using it. Ive beaten it multiple times (without doom shroom (which is a great counter) , and lost to it many as well.

You can't win them all.

If you're solar flare, plop grapes of wrath in front of it.... then you trade and do 6 damage to them.

Figure it out... but read these forums. Look how many times people ask for nerfs... there are bound to be some you'll smack your head on and go, "really?" Because you know it isn't and you beat it a lot.

Maybe you're using the wrong deck and hero, maybe they had better cards draw. Maybe they just have better cards and more experience (doubtful... i know you're a good player). But nerf is rarely the answer.

Also wanted to apologize for being snide. Guac, youre cool in my book. Just gettin frustrated with nerf threads is all.

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@daalnnii wrote:
I dont see how it's a card advantage... you can put sweet potato in front of any minion. It's a low health walnut that can also move the enemy to the lane... it will also buff cards like muscle sprout to make them be able to kill def end easily. On top of that, it leaves you plenty of sun to play another minion the same turn giving yourself card advantage. Don't know if you can tell, i love that card haha

Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there isn't one? Just because you can't play the cards you wanted that turn doesn't mean it's unfair.

Is it strong? Sure, but I've won many games by turn 5 without ever using it. Ive beaten it multiple times (without doom shroom (which is a great counter) , and lost to it many as well.

You can't win them all.

If you're solar flare, plop grapes of wrath in front of it.... then you trade and do 6 damage to them.

Figure it out... but read these forums. Look how many times people ask for nerfs... there are bound to be some you'll smack your head on and go, "really?" Because you know it isn't and you beat it a lot.

Maybe you're using the wrong deck and hero, maybe they had better cards draw. Maybe they just have better cards and more experience (doubtful... i know you're a good player). But nerf is rarely the answer.

Also wanted to apologize for being snide. Guac, youre cool in my book. Just gettin frustrated with nerf threads is all.

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@daalnnii Sorry, I just get really "confused" sometimes.  You ever have that feeling where you're totally on one side of the debate, but the other person is so reasonable that you agree with them very much, yet you still won't change your mind?  I've felt that way about balance issues with this game for a while.  It's like I completely agree that people need to stop complaining and change their decks, but I also agree that there are some cards in this game that have a much higher "win rate" compared to other cards, and they should probably be nerfed.  I just don't know what to think anymore.  I guess in the end, it doesn't matter, and Popcap/EA is going to do whatever the heck they want no matter if we say "no balance changes" or "lotsa balance changes".

Oh, and as for my "skill level", I'd say my general win rate is 55-65%.  I'm a rank 23, but I never play ranked because of fear of going into another lose streak because of stuff like Defensive End.

One last thing: I thought playing Sweet Potato was a card disadvantage because you're using multiple cards to trade with one.  But I forgot that Sweet Potato can protect something, like Mushroom Ringleader, giving you a board advantage.

I can see that inner confusion. But, and to be honest, it's rarely cards that high in cost that i consider OP. They should be powerful and make you scramble a bit. The games are short. It's the cards like bananasaurus and repeat moss i consider more op (i abuse the hell outta them with cc, i know you got to pvzheroesdecks, you should check the overgrowth deck i run, it's stupid.) You can get them out early and it's rare they van be taken care of... especially with cards like sweet potato to block and help clear the board while they get stronger.

Def end is definitely strong. There's no doubt. It's a game changer, but again, i think for the cost it's not overpowered, just a pain. Add to that the fact that EVERYONE is running it, and it can get old.

The good news, though, check out some of the cards on their way. They'll go a long way in shaking up the meta.

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@daalnnii wrote:
I can see that inner confusion. But, and to be honest, it's rarely cards that high in cost that i consider OP. They should be powerful and make you scramble a bit. The games are short. It's the cards like bananasaurus and repeat moss i consider more op (i abuse the hell outta them with cc, i know you got to pvzheroesdecks, you should check the overgrowth deck i run, it's stupid.) You can get them out early and it's rare they van be taken care of... especially with cards like sweet potato to block and help clear the board while they get stronger.

Def end is definitely strong. There's no doubt. It's a game changer, but again, i think for the cost it's not overpowered, just a pain. Add to that the fact that EVERYONE is running it, and it can get old.

The good news, though, check out some of the cards on their way. They'll go a long way in shaking up the meta.

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Why do I get the feeling that the meta's going to stay the same, no matter what new cards are introduced.

I... dont think so. You should really check those cards. They aren't just meta changing, they're game changing

I know kids love to make up words, but that can mean people with traditional vocabularies don't know what the hell you are talking about.

What do you mean by "meta"?

I know what it means when it is a prefix to real words - but not by itself.

Kids? I'm 38! And are you being serious, or just trolling because the definition in gaming is different that what the prescribed definition is?

The standard definition basically deals with the ways that people are using their cards to go outside the normal prescribed rules to create winning conditions for themselves.

The definition that had been associated with almost every major competitive card game and moba deals with what is currently so strong people are either running that or decks/heroes specifically designed to counter it.

But you already knew that. Oh, you kids and your pseudo intelligence....

Its a living language. Definitions change all the time. Gay meant happy more than anything else for the longest, and homosexual people were identified as gay long before that definition was recognized by dictionaries... dont be difficult just to be difficult. It looks ugly on you

Kids? I'm 38! And are you being serious, or just trolling because the definition in gaming is different that what the prescribed definition is?

The standard definition basically deals with the ways that people are using their cards to go outside the normal prescribed rules to create winning conditions for themselves.

The definition that had been associated with almost every major competitive card game and moba deals with what is currently so strong people are either running that or decks/heroes specifically designed to counter it.

But you already knew that. Oh, you kids and your pseudo intelligence....

Its a living language. Definitions change all the time. Gay meant happy more than anything else for the longest, and homosexual people were identified as gay long before that definition was recognized by dictionaries; just as cool described a temperature long before a state of being... dont be difficult just to be difficult.

I still have no idea what you are talking/rambling about.

I just want a definition for your usage of "meta".

I wasn't calling you a kid. I was referring to a make-believe word that has been popularized in the last couple of years by kids/children/young people.

I gave it to you.

And again. Cool, gay, hot, bad, righteous, crazy, etc. All have alt definitions that started out the same: as words being used outside the recognized definition.

But, since you apparently only read so far. What it means in EVERY card game in moba since inception, are decks and heroes so strong that they are standard. The test of the builds on the game revolve around the strength of these things. Either to supplement or counter.

There are certain decks you expect to see when facing certain heroes right? Those are meta decks. There are also decks that counter them... that's the meta of the game.

When new cards are introduced, it shakes up the meta because some cards, combos and heroes become stronger, and others weaker. So the meta shifts.

I hope you understand what i mean.

If you truly didn't understand the definition, I'm sorry for the guff; but these aren't be terms by any means. Go look at lol, hearthstone, smite, dota, magic, yu gi oh, hots forums and you will see the term used in this context all over the place... even dating back YEARS. If you do, you'll see why my response was incredulous.

Ok, I think I understand your usage now. Thanks for the explanation. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how that usage came to be. There doesn't seem to be any link to the true definition of the prefix "meta" at all - hence my reason for needing to ask about it.

You're still making quite a few assumptions though (probably why you got offended so easily).

For one; I understand how words can change their meanings over time, and new words get made up. This is generally the result of kids and foreign language speaking immigrants that don't have a very good grasp of the language. I assumed kids in this case.

Secondly; I don't play other card games like this, so using them as an example of why I should know doesn't really work. (My brother has been playing Magic for 20+ years, and I haven't heard him use the term "meta" either).

Also; I have no idea what "moba", "dota" and "smite" are. I was under the impression Yu Gi Oh was like Pokemon.

Grinning... i am sorry. You really didn't know. That's my bad. It really is common though.

I would explain mobas to you, but I'm not a huge enough fan of them to try lol. They're probably the most popular competive game style out right now. Examples are league of Legends, defense of the ancients, smite, paladins, heroes of the storm.

And i think it came about because meta generally means a self reference... the meta of the game are the cards and decks that are basically the choir of the game at that moment. When we say prof/valk everyone knows what deck we're talking about because it is a core (meta) deck of the game

That's a better way to explain it. The core trends.

So when we say certain cards will shake the meta up, we're saying that some things being introduced are gonna to fundamentally change the core of the current gameplay trends.

Thank you. I get it now.

Generally when I come across a new term I can figure out what it means just based on its usage and a general understanding of the language.(prefix, suffix, base word).

This one threw me for a loop.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my usage of "kids". It really wasn't directed at you personally. It's just a reflection of my annoyance with kids and their (lack of) language skills.

I've been seeing the term a lot since playing this game and visiting the Reddit forums. I figured I would ask on this forum instead though.