Re: Things the next shooter needs

@stukapooka As far as the veteran thing. Knowing how stuff works, map layout, and how characters play will always give a veteran an advantage over a new player. What I want to avoid is having veterans straight up do more damage, have more health, or other advantages over new players. In all 3 of the PvZ shooters, I've seen new players do extremely well, which is showing their skill off, and it's not a huge issue in our shooters, barring special cases. But in other games, people who pay more or play a long time have some times insurmountable advantages and we can't have that in a new game.

@stukapookaWell, I have to disagree on most points here, I don't really see that many of these problens in BFN.

1. Yes Hit detection is a problem in nis and shooters, but seriously in GW1 this is hundreds of times worse than BFN, GW2 actually has less Hit detection problems than BFN, but it's still horrible, like in the case where I exploded a barrel in 2 peas and they just came out alive and killed me with 100% HP, or due to someone leveling up the game crashes and simply destroy Hit detection and their abilities don't work.

2. About bugs, currently BFN is the one with the fewest bugs, GW2 and GW1 is full of bugs, besides the physics of the 2 games is a bug by itself.

3. I really agree about the coin issue, it's terrible in the 3 games, but in BFN they have even less use (except Switch)

4. You can save the main ones in a tab that can be used more quickly.

5. Yes, veterans, they will be better, but the game can give many advantages in this respect especially with GW1 having only 2 good classes the other 3 are basically useless and Super commando and Agent Pea being simply invincible or GW2 that exists Pay to win with Z7 or Twilight Chomper, or simply the legendary characters that are not easily accessible to novices.

6. Prize maps are very good, they manage to attract people to collect new items every month, about Rainbow Stars I agree.

7. About the maps, I completely disagree, the GW1 maps are beautiful, but with a horrible design, which encourages camping 100% of the time, GW2 has simply abhorrent maps, they are ugly, bad design, the maps have hitbox in something like carpet, in other words, if a raptor can stop your shots, maps basically without covers is basically playing in a big open line, besides that the classes don't work well on them. About people only playing turf in BFN it's basically the same in the other 2 games, I just don't find sessions in any mode other than turf, mixed is terrible in GW2, 12v12 looks like a mess on small maps and the fact of having turf makes the rotation of maps being much slower or mixed is pretty depressing and in GW1 it's 8v8 like in BFN which is one of the real attractions of that way for me in GW1 it's just more fun than in GW2.

About looking like a bad Overwatch, it's just wrong and meaningless, as in this view GW1 and GW2 are just a worse TF2 this is basically looking at a game and judging it by its inspiration.

@gametrieuk1. Agreed that hit detection netcode has always been a problem.

2. Gotta disagree here bfn by far has the worst bugs and they're a constant nuisance.

3. Agreed, bfn has the worst economy by far.

4. The favorites tab can still be cluttered and requires a good amount of time to find what you want if you save a lot of them as a fair amount of the messages feel like filler.

5. By that same logic bfn is just as bad die to the upgrade system as the legendary upgrades will take a fair time to acquire and branium basher dominates the game.

6. They definetly need to be managed better though, people have other games they want to play and things they have to do in real life and having a system that relied on fomo tactics until the switch port that allows you to work at your own pace was a very poor idea.

7. No offense but you're probably the one person I've seen who genuinely prefers the bfn map design. I do agree though that gw1 maps could be a camping mess due to the lack of an official sniper for zombies and the ungodly amount of spam of peashooter and footsoldier. Have to hard disagree with you on the gw2 maps though as ugly is the last word i would use to describe them, especially compared to the sterile and lifeless maps of bfn that suffer from enormous problems with ttk and sprinting.

8v8 is more of a mess than 12v12 due to bfns awful spawn system which can spawn you with the enemy team at the start of a match.

Mixed modes were quickly left to rot in gw1 but 2 actually tries to have the quests give you incentive to play them. Bfn had mixed modes be removed from the game in less than a year and genuinely made bad choices with the modes like the suburbination changes. 8v8 team vanquish in gw1 wasn't the regular mode btw.


Except in the comparison to overwatch they forgot what overwatch gets right in its design and completely forgot it.

Tf2 and gw were meant for 12v12 casual play while overwatch revolves around 6v6 2 of each category, one of each character teams comps which doesn't work when your in a 12v12 setting with shields, no character limits, and no ultimates to nuke the enemy team to break stalemates push with. On top of not having 2 entirely separate teams. Overwatch simply wouldnt work if a team had 4 Reinhardt's , 4 doomfists, and 4 bastions which bfn constantly finfs itself falling in.

If they were so inspired by overwatch they could've at least realized why its specific mechanics work like Overheal and shields rather than just copy and pasting mechanics to the point of almost a ripoff while still relying on gw game modes and ideas from gw1 maps for turf which by the logic here would still make bfn the worse version of a clones clones clone given that both gw's took inspiration from tf2 before overwatch came out and did the exact same thing with tf2 so why steal ideas from a game who stole ideas from the same source you got them from in the first place!?

@stukapooka

2. Morph glitch, texture glitch, physics bugs like teleports for touching bombs, abilities not coming out, walls without collision you can shoot through them, they're just textures, all seed of times and moom base z is like that, come to look like a rushed map, lack of map limits, ROF spray bug and many others are common in GW2 and I see at least 1 of these a day, in BFN the maximum I saw was simply a flying 80's.

5.Upgrades can be achieved by playing and with a stipulated progression time, as it's not luck nor is it exclusive for you to buy it.

6. Seriously with 15 hours you can complete a prize map in BFN, that's 30 me a day in a month which is basically the minimu for a pass, they are already easy, I just don't see why you would have to depend on bugs or money for terminal , a guy with a busy schedule like me, who could play 1 hour a day, I managed to finish the Wizard's prize map in 12 days, currently I don't do anything so I play 6/7 hours a day, which made me finish the Imp's prize map. 2 days without bugs, farm or other things.

7. I'm certainly not the only one, maps with Great White North, Moom Base Z, Zomburbia, Wall Nut Hills and Seeds of Time are stopped at the extreme to the point that no one advances, cover is lacking and simply some reason for you to advance, after all Close Range classes with Scientist, All-Star, Imp and they can simply always pick the best variants (which are always the most camping possible, like Paleontologo, Z7, Hockey, Golf, SHRImp, Astronalta...) and stay camping all the time and like the game is slow you have no reason not to camp, it will always give you more rewards and you will die less, GW2 looks like a chess game so much that your matches are stopped on these maps, going to TV you have maps with designs that don't make any sense for a game, Sand Sands, Coliseum, Team Park, Lunar Landing, Frost Criquet, Bone Island and Aqua Center, are either super Camping or Shock Points, where whoever spams the most wins.

I've never had problems with 8v8 and I've always found it better for small maps, Spawns look good too.

honestly you can have 4 SB in GW2 and he's basically a better Doomfist, he's the only mobile character in a game where everything is slow, he's just annoying, not only that but in GW2 you can have pretty much any character with damage elementals which just makes the game a pollution of effects where you can face a group control character (electric or toxic), a support character (ice) and a pressure character (fire) in the same class without any distinction, that's honestly worse than 5 BB 9001.

And about the example that PVZ copied a game, that's just silly, seriously BFN has lots of original ideas in their characters maps, concepts and stuff, putting BFN or any other PVZ as a copy is just not knowing what an inspiration is, after all BFN really made the GW1 classes go from being shallow and simplifying TF2 concepts to something new and unique to them.

Some examples of this are:

Chomper in GW1 and GW2; just a copy of a Spy mechanic, completely randomly placed on a character without worrying about anything.

All-star in GW1 and GW2; where they did heavy, with skills of an assault class, and with a completely useless shield, which was supposed to be a damage sponge is just braindead spam.

Scientist in GW1 and GW2; Well, it was based on the doctor, with a Braindead shotgun, which is the laziest shotgun I've ever seen in a game, it's a hitbox that deals damage up close, with a precarious healing and with serious DPS abilities it's funny how it is. is the same as soldier 76 in OW, use your movement, get close, shoot your bombs and heal yourself, and repeat incessantly, I just know it went totally wrong, to the point that it took 5 years when BFN released that people remembered they could heal with doctor.

Sunflower in GW1; Congratulations, you are useless because you don't have enough damage, her abilities were poorly distributed, to the point that she seemed useless on her own, and unable to provide everything necessary for the team due to her lack of mobility, she seemed a role against everyone the characters and the fact that the GW1 regen is horrible and the revival system is pitiful.

Engineer in GW1 and GW2, a support based on the TF2 engineer, but with a quiz kit and primary, that only builds a Teleport and is a worse pea, with abilities of an assault and sniper class, I just try to understand that, they just made a lazy version of a TF2 character and literally didn't even know how to rework his abilitie, because all he needs was to be a buggy Hitbox version of Peagatling.

Soldier in GW1 and GW2, he's an assault class that's better at long ranges than Cactus, a sniper character, so great, he's just good at any range, unlike snipers who get bad at close range, basically best class in the game.

I forgot a couple things:

Strong Anti-Cheat.  Obviously this is more of an issue for PC players like me, but GW2 has had hacker problems for a very long time and they ruin matches. I have heard that it is possible to hack consoles with some 3rd party stuff, but no idea if that's true or not. I've seen hackers in GW, although that was just in Ops, having infinite ammo as a Pea Gatling was weird, but I've never seen this in BfN thanks to the same anti-cheat as I saw in Paladins.

Cross-play. I know there could be issues with controller vs. keyboard and mouse, but cross-play has worked in other games I've played, including Paladins, and it would help keep more modes active and populated so we don't have to turn off mixed mode like they did in BfN. TT is my favorite mode, but I don't want to play TT as my only game mode.

I'll not get heavily involved in the discussion that popped up here, except to say, I like all 3 games, I like GW2 the most, all 3 games could use a big patch to fix issues that persist in them to this day. For me, all three games have things I like most and things that I don't like. I want a new shooter and soon, preferably more like GW than BfN, but BfN has stuff I want to see in a new game as well. All shooters copy each other in this day and age, Blizzard made OW so you know that thing steals from all over, because that's what they do; take someone else's ideas and make money off of it. I have 500 hours in TF2 and 250ish in OW before I uninstalled OW permanently, 893 in BfN, 321 in GW, 2825 in GW2, 400 in Paladins, and close to 70 in Gigantic before it got shut down so I play a lot of hero shooters, GW2 for all its flaws, is still my favorite and most fun, largely because it's PvZ. I truly hope we not only see that new game but they learn from the past and make the best one yet.