There is a problem with the balancing of points and viability in the game currently. I didnt quite grasp how unbalanced the point system for healing was until i got a Challenge to get 3000 points in one game with the sunflower. Im used to getting that score pretty consistently with other classes that focuses on damage, and i am a really good healer as well. Therefore i thought it would be easy to rack up the points by being an active healer. I didnt get many kills. However my efforts in keeping my team alive was one of the sole reasons we won with 6-7 revives and 3000 healing at the end of the round. I was very dissapointed to see that my great healing effort wasnt Even worth more than 1500 points. Currently healing for xp and points is not Viable, which is a shame. A good healer that actually does the Job it was purposed for, and not focusing on vanquishes, is incredibly valuable for the team, yet not encouraged at all. This becomes way more clear when you look at points/xp gained when reviving a friendly vs vanquishing an enemy. A vanquish gains you about 200 xp while reviving a teammate only gives you around 60. In my opinion reviving is often far harder and can be just as valuable for the team as getting vanquishes. To revive someone you often have to fight off the initial attacker and you have to be lucky that the person youre trying to revive does not choose to respawn. Not to mention that while reviving youre essentially a sitting duck.TL:DR healing and reviving needs to be encouraged. Currently xp and points given for these actions makes it less than favorable. A good healer can make all the difference but is not rewarded. Excuse my poor grammar.

@skybellrock I've mained heals for years in PvZ & completely, utterly agree. I don't worry so much about my own xp as I like to play heals, but the way it's rewarded does absolutely nothing to encourage anyone else to play heals.BFN rewards healers even less than original GW & GW2. In GW2 revives got half the xp of a vanquish - as you've pointed out it's lower than that even. You don't get the various additional xp that goes with kills such as saving an ally. And revives are much harder to get safely now, which leaves you the low rewards of heals. You're always targeted by the opposition (who ironically often appear to recognise your value more than your own team do).It really, really needs changing 😒Great post, thank you!

This screenshot is the TL;DR of this post lol.

I agree completely !!! I love healing in most games. However the return in this game is very sup par. We stick our necks out for the rest of the team and we are not really rewarded for it!! Plz make healing worth it!!

I agree totally. A tweak or two to the way the scoreboard works is needed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to be considered one of the MVPs at the end, yet be in the bottom few players on the scoreboard.I love playing Sunflower, but often I'm the only healer on the team, so it's extra important to try and incentivise people to play the roles that are not getting played as much in order to try and get well-balanced teams, which makes the game more fun and competitive overall.

I actually know why this happens. And the debate about the score should be elsewhere.The reason why that person was at bottom is because of Overhealing.Overhealing gives 3 XP only per 35 HP (One hero's worth without the Leveling Up upgrade. Not using Cocoon either.).What that means is 3 / 35 = 0.08571428571 XP per 1 overhealing HPLet us translate that to actual "score" now... Let's suppose that someone got 7,000 Healing (in the scoreboards), that means 7000 x 0.08571428571 = 600 Score Only for 7000 Overheals!The developers decided NOT TO give plenty of score for overhealing.Instead, if you want to actually get more score for healing, there are 2 major scenarios you have to focus healing on:Heal a critically wounded ally. You will get 5 XP (I'm not sure how many 5 XPs you will get, but I assume it's more than 1.. of course it also depends on whether they keep getting damaged or not as well.)Heal an ally that is shooting someone and vanquishing them. You will also get 5 XP Heal Assist.So, what that all means is... When you look at the scoreboard and see 13,000 healing.... more than half of it could possibly be just "overhealing". The developers decided not to reward overhealing that much and instead made it "skill based". You are rewarded for healing the right allies at the right moment and not for just pressing the button randomly (which I see many people do.).I will repeat what I said at first again... The debate should be elsewhere.Should they even include Overhealing in the "healing" category?Should Overhealing XP be buffed? Should they remove Overhealing altogether? If they did, the healing score would be true score, and allies will get purely injured (since there won't be overheals, the actual HP would be taken away when damaged by enemy players.) And for that you will gain more score by healing the red HP and not just keep overhealing again and again (which is exactly why you see low scores).Should they buff other XP healing? e.g. critically injured allies and healing assist? <- I think that's what they should do. I just want healers to pay attention to whoever needs healing and get rewarded for it handsomely.Should there be another category? e.g. the Overhealed ally doesn't die while having less than 35 HP, manages to escape and regenerate HP. This would mean that your Overhealing had protected him from dying in that situation. <- This could be a good ideaSo, here's what I'd do... Increase XP for healing critically injured allies and healing assists significantly (e.g. healing a rooted peashooter or another sunflower getting vanquishes or any other hero of course). And also buff reviving XP in general. That is because I know that some players might not be good shooters in general and they can't be assassin Sunflowers or Scientists. I'm not sure about buffing Overhealing score further. Part of me doesn't want there to be more reward for it because it's just pressing a button. Another part of me thinks that it should be increased as a thanks for being a healer and for empowering allies.That's it, I just wanted to get to the bottom of this issue.I apologize for any mistakes. Maybe I missed something somewhere, or I miscalculated something.

Suggestion: Make Healers More Viable

22 Replies

asabaida
7 years ago
Totally agree, and many others on this forum would agree as well ...
it has been talked about before... hopefully the devs will take notice 😃

And don't worry your grammar was absolutely fine 😃
ToastedSarnie
7 years ago
@skybellrock I've mained heals for years in PvZ & completely, utterly agree. I don't worry so much about my own xp as I like to play heals, but the way it's rewarded does absolutely nothing to encourage anyone else to play heals.
BFN rewards healers even less than original GW & GW2. In GW2 revives got half the xp of a vanquish - as you've pointed out it's lower than that even. You don't get the various additional xp that goes with kills such as saving an ally. And revives are much harder to get safely now, which leaves you the low rewards of heals. You're always targeted by the opposition (who ironically often appear to recognise your value more than your own team do).
It really, really needs changing 😒
Great post, thank you!
MowsDaLawn
7 years ago
I agree completely !!! I love healing in most games. However the return in this game is very sup par. We stick our necks out for the rest of the team and we are not really rewarded for it!! Plz make healing worth it!!
GammaX6
7 years ago
This screenshot is the TL;DR of this post lol.
ToastedSarnie
7 years ago
@GammaX6 Yep. Great amount of heals, good revives & bottom of the table sums it up
SigmaTheDJ
7 years ago
I agree totally. A tweak or two to the way the scoreboard works is needed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to be considered one of the MVPs at the end, yet be in the bottom few players on the scoreboard.
I love playing Sunflower, but often I'm the only healer on the team, so it's extra important to try and incentivise people to play the roles that are not getting played as much in order to try and get well-balanced teams, which makes the game more fun and competitive overall.
GammaX6
7 years ago
I actually know why this happens. And the debate about the score should be elsewhere.
The reason why that person was at bottom is because of Overhealing.
Overhealing gives 3 XP only per 35 HP (One hero's worth without the Leveling Up upgrade. Not using Cocoon either.).
What that means is 3 / 35 = 0.08571428571 XP per 1 overhealing HP
Let us translate that to actual "score" now... Let's suppose that someone got 7,000 Healing (in the scoreboards), that means 7000 x 0.08571428571 = 600 Score Only for 7000 Overheals!
The developers decided NOT TO give plenty of score for overhealing.
Instead, if you want to actually get more score for healing, there are 2 major scenarios you have to focus healing on:
Heal a critically wounded ally. You will get 5 XP (I'm not sure how many 5 XPs you will get, but I assume it's more than 1.. of course it also depends on whether they keep getting damaged or not as well.)
Heal an ally that is shooting someone and vanquishing them. You will also get 5 XP Heal Assist.
So, what that all means is... When you look at the scoreboard and see 13,000 healing.... more than half of it could possibly be just "overhealing". The developers decided not to reward overhealing that much and instead made it "skill based". You are rewarded for healing the right allies at the right moment and not for just pressing the button randomly (which I see many people do.).
I will repeat what I said at first again... The debate should be elsewhere.
Should they even include Overhealing in the "healing" category?
Should Overhealing XP be buffed?
Should they remove Overhealing altogether? If they did, the healing score would be true score, and allies will get purely injured (since there won't be overheals, the actual HP would be taken away when damaged by enemy players.) And for that you will gain more score by healing the red HP and not just keep overhealing again and again (which is exactly why you see low scores).
Should they buff other XP healing? e.g. critically injured allies and healing assist? <- I think that's what they should do. I just want healers to pay attention to whoever needs healing and get rewarded for it handsomely.
Should there be another category? e.g. the Overhealed ally doesn't die while having less than 35 HP, manages to escape and regenerate HP. This would mean that your Overhealing had protected him from dying in that situation. <- This could be a good idea
So, here's what I'd do... Increase XP for healing critically injured allies and healing assists significantly (e.g. healing a rooted peashooter or another sunflower getting vanquishes or any other hero of course). And also buff reviving XP in general. That is because I know that some players might not be good shooters in general and they can't be assassin Sunflowers or Scientists. I'm not sure about buffing Overhealing score further. Part of me doesn't want there to be more reward for it because it's just pressing a button. Another part of me thinks that it should be increased as a thanks for being a healer and for empowering allies.
That's it, I just wanted to get to the bottom of this issue.
I apologize for any mistakes. Maybe I missed something somewhere, or I miscalculated something.
ToastedSarnie
7 years ago
@GammaX6 Hi, your analysis is amazing & useful as always, thank you - I very much doubt you've made any mistakes! I wasn't aware of the exact figures but I knew overheals would've played a part in that low xp. I did however, also assume it was largely down to the zero kills, so I apologise for missing the point you were making - I'm going to blame my cold for making my head fuzzy!
I completely agree that overheal xp should be lower than critical heals. My own heal figures are lower than a lot of people's because I focus on those with seriously low health - I do top people up as I pass them on my way to a player than needs help & add overheal to players in a vital defence / capture move but otherwise don't bother with it much. I would quite happily get rid of it, it's just a way of replacing the previous games character health upgrades & doesn't add a lot of value in my humble opinion.
I should also clarify for everyone that I mean you don't get enough overall reward for a character that has basically been hobbled to do little else BUT heal. Previous games healers could revive much easier, which was a valuable source of xp & BOTH were capable of getting kills as well as doing their job. I always put heals & revives over my kills but I really miss the "assassin sunflower" I could be at the same time!
@GammaX6 I honestly don't know what the best answer is, whether it's tweaking the amount of xp you get, or simply making it easier to revive or get kills (I'd like a combination of all of that myself!), but I like a lot of your ideas! I fully agree there are players who don't heal properly but there are lots & lots that do & I think the overall xp package needs to reflect that in some way to encourage people to play healer.
If anyone got to the bottom of this post thank you for reading!!! 😊
Iron_Guard8
Legend
7 years ago
100% agreed. I feel that @GammaX6 summed it up succinctly as always, but healing and reviving needs more xp. I do like that critical heals give extra xp but the baseline is too low in the first place. Healers should be more greatly rewarded and reviving too. I had top healer for the Zombies (sunflower won the overall boast) as a scientist over the weekend as I focused heavily on it for the entire match, only got a couple of vanquishes as I stuck to healing, and was third from the bottom on a full team of 12. This is going to discourage healers, not encourage them.
If you're willing to focus on keeping your team healthy, you should be suitably rewarded for it. The current xp levels are too low to truly encourage this, which is counter-intuitive and counterproductive.
Iron_Guard8
Legend
7 years ago
As an addendum to my last post, notice that even though they nerfed it from the rather crazy 50, the xp Citrons get from shielding is 10 xp per tick (12 with the xp upgrade), yet with the xp upgrade equipped you get only 3 or 6 for healing and critical healing respectively. It should at least be on par with shielding, if not more.