The Plant Struggle Is Real
I don't know why, but over the past several days, where I have mostly been on plant teams during Turf take over, the plants can't seem to win. Not just losing the game, but rarely even making it past...
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It looks like such problem doesn't bother only me... and my teammates 🙂
Seriously guys. Personally, my winrate for the plants in offence more than 60 percent; in diffence more than 75. The game really seems balanced. The only thing that is needed is just to know the weaknesses of all zombies charecters and try counter them by it. For example, z-mech. Their mobility -- their weakness. So different disables and long rage charecters can easily match them.
Who else? Scientists? They die almost one charge of my electric citron... killing these turds brings me the most pleasure. 😃
What about pirates, then as for me in the shootout 1vs1 standard cactus kills sharkbite in 75 percent (in my personal experience).
So guys, please stop covering your inability and incompetence behind a screen of unbalance game and stop blame in all problems the developers. Blame only yourselves, because only you and you may be to blame!
75% of the problem is... and always has been that players don't push on offense. Part of the issue is that now that Plants play on offense, the original classes were given 0 new abilities geared towards offense. That combination right there is a disaster for plants. When you got pansies who don't push the objective, that forces the defense out towards plants spawn... which then leads to the plants being spawn killed.
As I've always said, this generation of k/d kids has no concept of team and objective play. I've said since GW1 that they need to gear the incentives towards objectives. On offense, more time spent in objective and kills while in objective gives bigger bonuses. On defense, kills while standing in objective give bigger bonuses. When they see their scores and payouts drop... and are no longer on top of the leaderboards, then maybe they'll start rethinking how they play.
Adding to your points, zombies are mostly geared toward offence, so even when they should be defending they're all attacking the plants spawn points.
Plants, instead of attacking the graveyard and capture points are all stuck defending their spawn point for no reason than lack of class balance.
Once the Mechs are out, you can wave goodbye to whatever should be balanced, now you need 2-3 plants per Mech.
Give my balance changes some feedback please.
Your posts aren't worth replies or attention. You're the type of person that they listen to... and end up screwing the game up even further.
@AWMaxSterling wrote:
75% of the problem is... and always has been that players don't push on offense. Part of the issue is that now that Plants play on offense, the original classes were given 0 new abilities geared towards offense. That combination right there is a disaster for plants. When you got pansies who don't push the objective, that forces the defense out towards plants spawn... which then leads to the plants being spawn killed.
As I've always said, this generation of k/d kids has no concept of team and objective play. I've said since GW1 that they need to gear the incentives towards objectives. On offense, more time spent in objective and kills while in objective gives bigger bonuses. On defense, kills while standing in objective give bigger bonuses. When they see their scores and payouts drop... and are no longer on top of the leaderboards, then maybe they'll start rethinking how they play.
Last night I was on zombies in Zomburbia against a plant team that could not get out of the spawn. There were a couple of electro brains on roofs hitting them with arc damage while they were in their spawn and some imps rolling in mechs. I almost left the game because I could barely get any vanquishes myself. The teams were even and two of the players are solid players that I know from GW1.
I can't speculate the skill for the rest of the plant team, but it was a really lopsided game. Even pre patch Rose would have been fair at this point. That is how bad the game was for the plants.@AWMaxSterling Yup, I've experienced that all too well myself, with your team mates not trying to actually capture the base, but just staying as far away as possible and shooting into it. Like they don't understand, you can kill a 1000 times, but you can't win unless you get your butt into that circle!
It's particularly bad on the plants side, and maybe it's because GW1 trained so many players to think of plants as defenders but not really being aggressive. Even when you'd get that happening on the zombies side in GW1, 1 or 2 good offensive players could carry the team to victory, as I often had to do. But in GW2, I'm finding that doesn't really work, in large part due to the size of the maps. There is just too much ground to cover, so if you find you're the only one actually trying to take the base, while everyone else on your team, is randomly shooting into it, by the time you get to the base, have a few seconds to turn it, get killed, and make it back there to try again, time has run out and you lose.
- Approved
@tristkiss wrote:@AWMaxSterling Yup, I've experienced that all too well myself, with your team mates not trying to actually capture the base, but just staying as far away as possible and shooting into it. Like they don't understand, you can kill a 1000 times, but you can't win unless you get your butt into that circle!
It's particularly bad on the plants side, and maybe it's because GW1 trained so many players to think of plants as defenders but not really being aggressive.
I don't agree. It's a matter of design. Plants have no offense in the circle because of the design because there isn't a single plant with strong close range potential. Plants shines at mid-long range. They don't have the hp nor the abilities to compete with zombies in a short range fight
@borjomimaster It's not a case of "oh we just need to know the weaknesses of the zombies and all will be right with the world" I know the weaknesses. I know what works against them and what doesn't. I also know when you're playing as the zombies and feel that issues are making it unfair for the other side, there is something wrong here.
I can tell a good team from a bad one, and when losses are coming from an group of unskilled players, and when something else is the cause. That I had all bots playing these turf take over matches and the plants were still losing every time, I believe means something isn't balanced here.
- Approved
@borjomimaster wrote:It looks like such problem doesn't bother only me... and my teammates 🙂
Seriously guys. Personally, my winrate for the plants in offence more than 60 percent; in diffence more than 75. The game really seems balanced. The only thing that is needed is just to know the weaknesses of all zombies charecters and try counter them by it. For example, z-mech. Their mobility -- their weakness. So different disables and long rage charecters can easily match them.
Who else? Scientists? They die almost one charge of my electric citron... killing these turds brings me the most pleasure. 😃
What about pirates, then as for me in the shootout 1vs1 standard cactus kills sharkbite in 75 percent (in my personal experience).
So guys, please stop covering your inability and incompetence behind a screen of unbalance game and stop blame in all problems the developers. Blame only yourselves, because only you and you may be to blame!I really think that is important to point out why you're an idiot.
I personally can't care less how good you are (good for you, none of my business)
The point is that if we pick average teams and we make them play 2 games, one with zombies and one with plants vs each other, the zombie team wins easily both games 90% of the time in turf takeover.
I personally don't care too much if I win or loss as long as the match is fun. Such dramatic imbalance made me rage quit more than once.
Btw I have almost 200 hours of playing, I was 313 on gw1 and I'm really more skilled than the average player- Approved
@AlexP1980 wrote:
The point is that if we pick average teams and we make them play 2 games, one with zombies and one with plants vs each other, the zombie team wins easily both games 90% of the time in turf takeover.
No way in hell is that accurate. I'm winning way more than that as plants in that mode. Sure if you got stuck playing zomburbia (and Moon Base Z to a certain extent) all the time i'd agree with that, but on other maps plants can easily win too.
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@InC0g wrote:
@AlexP1980 wrote:The point is that if we pick average teams and we make them play 2 games, one with zombies and one with plants vs each other, the zombie team wins easily both games 90% of the time in turf takeover.
No way in hell is that accurate. I'm winning way more than that as plants in that mode. Sure if you got stuck playing zomburbia (and Moon Base Z to a certain extent) all the time i'd agree with that, but on other maps plants can easily win too.
So you are saying that in 2 maps plants don't have a chance and the others (when defending) got 50%? It's 75% winning rate for zombies. If you feel it's ok...
Are you some sort of stupid? My words means only one thing -- all depends on your personally skill. It's my opinion that I confirm by my personally experience.
- ApprovedThat's because defending is way easier than attacking, no matter which side you're playing.
Granted, zomburbia and lunar base are much easier to defend than time park and great white north but Defending as plants is still pretty easy if you know the maps.
If you can't defend time park on the last stage as plants, it's purely because you and your team are very inexperienced. It is so easy to stop the team from pushing the boot.
I played zomburbia recently as zombies and it was the first time the plants managed to get to the last stage, they lost at the end though. You know how they did it? they coordinated 5-6 people at a time diving in to cap points.
That's what the game is supposed to be about, teamwork and coordination, but the player base just doesn't seem to want to do any of that. Some things I noticed ...
-people are terrified of dying for some odd reason they rather lose a cap than die defending it.
-wayyyyyyy too many people are sniping. Nothing more frustrating than watching your citrons and corns sitting back and trying to pick people off instead of doing their job as front line characters.
-due to the nature of the game, you have many many people are very young and don't know how to play a team based game or simply don't care about winning as much as the more mature players.
-voice chat is sometimes difficult to use because when you're trying to coordinate with team members there's usually some elementary school child that talks over you or just talks for no reason
-there's this weird blitzkrieg strategy people have adopted. Where they throw strategy and wherewithal out the window and just rush in guns blazing
Zombies have the advantage and that's mostly due to the nature of their maps. Some characters are out of line, like electro brainz and deadbeard but mostly it's the map imbalance that hurts the plants most.
I hope popcap realizes that catering to a very small playerbase of young children and casual adults is a sure way to kill the longevity of their game. They are new to this whole shooter thing and I hope over time they realize that making a game that is competitive and balanced attracts a much broader audience.
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