The State of Citron
(I know there has been a thread on this but sorry can't seem to find it so posting a new one :/ ) Holy cow this character needs help. I've played through to Super Elite recently as my continued ques...
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Spin dash is just sprint tackle if it had counterplay. It's definitely much easier to duke as it has a little spin animation + sound effect to warn people it's coming. I don't think its really underpowered. if anything its citrons only good feature. it's his main source of damage output. his juice cannon cannot get kills (against competent players) without landing spin dash. If his juice cannon does get a damage or fire rate buff, I do see spin dash's damage being nerfed a bit. For this current patch that we are in tho, it's all he's got. (It actually did less damage while also taking longer to activate in garden warfare 2. Bfn spin dash is a direct improvement from gw2 spin dash).
I have already seen far too many people play citron completely wrong. too many people stand still and shield and use naval laser during fights. they're all Christmas noobs but the game has done nothing to teach them how citron works. so they shield, then die, without contributing much to the team, then eventually switch to an easier, more unga bunga character like sunflower or snapdragon (who are straightforward and simple to get the hang of). Most cases, I don't think its the player's fault. it's kinda the citron's fault for being so "wonky".
something needs to be done about the peel shield and naval laser. the naval laser is barely useful ever. primary fire is more reliable than it. it's on a fairly long cooldown and punishes the citron for using it (makes him much MUCH easier to hit as he cant shield or jump. He also cant even aim the thing. can only hipfire it for some unknown reason). The peel shield reduces his movement speed alot. protects a decently average area in front of his face a bit, but only for a short while when under fire. and gives him ammo for soaking damage. The peel shields existence has made it so Citron cannot aim. he can only hipfire. Implying he would be most effective at close range. Which is true, but literally every single other character in this game (except maybe super brainz, who sucks at all ranges atm), is effective at close and long-range. Even Imp, who was once a close range trigger happy midget john wick, has now become the sniper from team fortress 2. Every single character (except super brainz cuz bad hit detection) is a dps machine. Citron cannot fight anyone long range. he has to get up close. everyone else tho (except scientist and sb) have the freedom of high dps across the map. Even in close range Citron barely gets by with his damage. Heavily relying on spin dash, empeach and his sprint to win fights.
They seriously need to consider making naval laser synergise with the rest of his entire character. having a noodle beam that hits barely any damage in a micro-sized hitbox does not work with his close-range juice cannon, peel shield, empeach and spin dash. Even with juiced the projectile size of naval laser is pitiful. it needed to be bigger. They need to rework/ replace naval laser badly.
Peel shield needs to be bigger and maybe give a movement speed buff (super brainz gets a move speed buff for pushing forward with the shield, maybe citron could get movement speed buff while strafing left and right or moving backwards with the shield). he goes from the super agile bouncing ball, to a sluggish wall slowly pacing around soaking damage.
For playing him, all I can recommend is-
that you use his ball form as much as you can (more than peel shield). treat sprint like an ability. jump constantly. jump directly over peoples heads to throw off their aim. Citrons sprint is amazingly good.
spam spin dash and empeach off cooldown aswell. even if you yourself arent in a fight, if you see a fight in the distance, chuck an empeach over to help the plant(s) in that area.
NEVER USE NAVAL LASER EVER. Pretend its not there honestly. dont ever think about using it. it only reveals where you are and makes you extremely vulnerable to all attacks. the damage it does along with its terrible projectile size make it not worth using at all.
The Naval Laser should be an ability which can be used while the Citron is shielded. Otherwise there is literally no reason to activate it. Low damage and the player is an easy target while doing it as @chogath_player points out.
Most good players are hard to kill as citron...shield until emp reloads then rinse repeat or run away...I agree naval laser is useless now but this char if anything needs a shield nerf still.
@chogath_player and @ippig Must completely agree with your posts there. What is that laser doing there? As a citron player, I find the Navel Laser is not worth using (except in PvE where I disagree it can do some work). But other than that, I prefer not to use it.
@chogath_player What is Navel Laser even doing there? I'd be happy for the Citron's laser to remain there, but you should be able to cancel the ability or sprint/shield cancel it, jump and zoom with it. It should be buffed in those ways, it doesn't need more damage output. Overall, it's a weird ability for a tank.
@ippig Shielding while using Navel Laser would make sense, but perhaps it should be an upgrade. Perhaps for 4 points or something, you can auto shield while using Navel Laser for the duration it's being used, similar to the "Extra Special" upgrade for Super Brainz which auto-shields him while activating his Super Ultra Ball ability!
Totally agree! 👍
- @chogath_player
I agree about the Naval Laser- it's only really good to use in PvE during a Boss Wave when that Boss is a good distance away from you and focused on someone else. In PvP I'd never use the thing myself.
I also agree with the heavy reliance on EMPeach and Spin Dash and as much as I love to shield other players I reserve that just for PvE and save the shield mainly for muself on the (very) rare occasion that I play Citron in PvP
I've also observed a number of newer players as Citron essentially basing their entire performance as the character by waiting out the cool down on Naval Laser and not bothering with EMPeach or Spin Dash and at least one newbie barely even fired his Juice Cannon.
I noticed that Super Brainz has an upgrade which raises his shield when you start the windup for throwing the Ultra Ball and I think Citron could greatly benefit from a cheap upgrade which raises your shield when you initiate the Naval Laser, or at least the general "stadard" ability to raise your shield at any time while firing it.I disagree whole heartedly with shielding and firing for Citron unless other major nerfs are applied (to dash of 50% or more).
The problem with Naval Laser isn’t the damage or firing concept that needs work, it’s the ability to end the laser, if you’re exposed to incoming enemy fire.
Just my two cents but giving Citron the ability to ONE SHOT characters (with dash) ... is bad enough... give them the ability to dash and then throw up a shield during Naval Laser? There goes Soldier, Scientist, Pirate, and most likely all other characters caught off guard by the inaudible dash.
I think more people need to play Battle Aren and Team Vanquish to truly understand the balance of these characters. Sure a little drop off is needed for some but speaking for Citron, solely, he’s very near being at a good point I just don’t think shielding while shooting is the answer ( @realitysquared ) ...
@spIash_damage I just read your post. You make a good point about Naval Laser. Giving the Opiton to cancel Naval Laser is actually a great idea! It's a great way to balance Naval Laser without making things complicated
I was just thinking that naval laser should have shield when active too! It would make so much more sense on citron. Naval Laser just feels really situational. I like to use it to suppress enemies but it just leaves you so vulnerable.
I'm not sure if it should be an upgrade. Naval laser already leaves you pretty vulnerable. Maybe it should be apart of the ability by default and it only shields Citron, no one else. With Naval Laser, Citron gets more range, but can't defend his team mates as well when its active. Balancing more offense with less defense?
