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SundropDot's avatar
SundropDot
5 years ago

Thoughts On Who Should Get Buffed and Nerfed in The Next Balance Patch

So, I am relatively sure that Popcap is going to release a balance patch in September, probably the last Tuesday. However, I feel that the effect of the most recent balance patch has not had a huge impact except for the pick rate of Steam Blaster and Chomper to a degree. I hope the next balance patch brings in good changes and here are mine that I want for right now.

Buffs:

Kernel Corn

-Slightly Increase Corn's Damage or Lower His Overall TTK (Without Butter Beacon)

-Increase Health To 150 From 125

Shogun Guard

-Increase Damage By 1 (To 12-14 Dmg, From 11-13)

-Lower Damage Increase From Butter Beacon To Keep It at 14-17 Damage

      Kernel Corn is in some need of buffs, and I think most can agree. I think Corn already has 3rd (or 4th) large hitbox on Plants, so 150 Health would be fair. Shogun Guard would only require one more shot to kill, and it would not do more damage with Butter Beacon. The reliance on Butter Beacon makes Corn a bit too weak right now.

Imp

-Slightly Increase Rate of Fire (I believe from 725 rpm to 750 rpm)

-Slightly Increase Gravity Grenade's Size

Z-Mech

-Allow Missile Madness To Continue To Fire After Being Destroyed 

-Allow Z-Mech To Very Slowly Regenerate Health

      Imp needs a few buffs to make him viable again. His Z-Mech was hit too hard with the removal of invincibility and having the explosive abilities being nerfed hard. I think he needs some quality of life improvements and some good buffs.

Nerfs:

Chomper

-Reduce Goop Tick Damage To 2 (From 4)

-Increase Goop's Cooldown To 12 Secs (From 9 Secs)

      Chomper's goop still is slightly too strong for how much damage it could do. Grody Goop will still be menacing to deal with, but this will give more characters a better chance at dealing with it instead of being a "I win" card.

Snapdragon

-Have the Fire Stop Damaging When The Opponent Reaches 25 Health (From 15 Health)

      Snapdragon can deal lots of damage to opponents and leave them very low without needing to do too much. I think this needs to be slightly toned down, however, it won't destroy Snapdragon at all.

Super Brainz

-Hyper Jump Thump Cooldown Should Be Slightly Increased By 2 Seconds

-Alpha Better Shield Has 120 Health (From 160 Health, I think)

Brainium Basher

-Maximum Health is Decreased To 150

-Charge Damage Changed (1st: 30  2nd: 60  3rd: 90)

-The Higher The Charge The Short The Distance Travelled (1st: Longest   2nd: Medium   3rd: Short)

-Uppercut Hitbox Increased

      Super Brainz and his legendary upgrade need to be nerfed. The Brainium Basher would require more skill to use and would overall be less annoying. Regular Super Brainz should also be slightly toned down as he does too much as both a tank and dive character.

80's Action Hero

-Bow Blaster Needs A Bit Less Damage (1st: 15 Damage Total   2nd: 30 Damage Total   3rd: 70 Damage Total)

-Reduce Health To 125 (From 150 Health)

      80's Action Hero  needs to be slightly toned down as he deals a lot of damage and overall needs to more like a counter (mid range) sniper with a lot of explosives.

Space Cadet

-Space Station has a 25 Second Cooldown (From 0)

      Space Station needs to be toned down as it is very strong. Although this is only a minor change, it would be a temporary change until developers can spend more time to properly balance this team-up ability out.

Engineer

-Decrease Engineer's Primary Weapon Damage To 30 (From 38)

-Decrease Big Bolt Blaster's Range Down To 15m (From 25m)

      Engineer still does not feel like a support character, or at least played like, and this change should tone down how oppressive he can feel at time. I believe that these changes can give the developers more time to better balance out Engineer and possibly rework/tweak him.

Tweaks (Buffs & Nerfs)

Citron

-Increase Health to 225 (From 200 Health)

-Reduce Shield Health To 250 (From 600)

-Fix Shield Glitches (With Slopes, Enemies Right In Front Citron, etc.)

-Naval Laser Can be Zoomed In, Canceled (Before It Is Halfway Over), And Citron Can Jump During It.

-Spin Dash's Damage Is Reduced To 50 (From 75)

-Spin Dash Goes Slightly Further

      Citron needs to be changed to better fit this game's playstyle. He should still be able to protect his teammates well, but he is more designed for combat and now has a more viable ability with Naval Laser. @TheSprinter85 had the idea of increasing health, but lowering shields, I just slightly changed the values and added the Naval Laser and Spin Dash changes.

Sunflower

-Increase Damage To 10-12 Damage (From 8-10)

-Increase Ammo To 45 (From 40) 

-Decrease Heal Beam Healing To 18 Tick Health Rate (From ~21 Tick Healing Rate)

-Sunflower Now Receives Less Healing From Sundrops (1-2 Health Per)

-Sundrops Heal Allies Slightly More (From 3-5 health Per To 6-8 Health Per)

-Sunny Side Up Now Regenerates Health For Sunflower (20 Health Per Second for 2.5 or 3 Sec)

-Sunny Side Up Has A Cooldown Delay Of 2.5 Seconds

      Sunflower needs to be more independent, while also being able to support her team. this is also similar to Citron where I am designing her to be more independent, although I am not too sure if this will be too balanced. I would like some specific feedback for this one.

Scientist

-Allow Scientist To Get Critical Hits (Increase From 3 to 4)

-Have a 0.5 Sec Start Up For Warp

-Warp Only Has Two Charges

-Warp Has A Cooldown Delay Of 1 Second

-Sticky Healy Thingy Has Two Charges

-Sticky Healy Thingy Heals 30 Health Per Second For 2.5 or 3 Seconds 

-Sticky Healy Thingy Has A Cooldown Delay of 3 Seconds

-Sticky Healy Thingy heals Allies For 40 Health Per Second For 2.5 or 3 Seconds 

-Decrease Healing Hose Healing To 15 Tick Health Rate (From ~21 Tick Healing Rate)

      Scientist Needs to also be a bit more independent like Sunflower. I designed his changes around making him have more survivability without him relying to heavily on Warp, which will add skill between Scientist players and overall make him better for combat. I also don't know how balance this would be so I would also like specific feedback for this.   

That Are All of My Thoughts On what Should Happen For The Next Balance Patch or Two. I Would Like Some Feedback. I Will Try To Respond If You Want A More Detailed Explanation About Something.

12 Replies

  • agqwpe663oe6's avatar
    agqwpe663oe6
    5 years ago
    @SundropDot I'm almost with you, its just citron and snap. Citron's DPS is completely broken and would only get worse with higher base HP and longer distance for the dash. Reduce it to 1-2 dmg per shot, so 6 damage at most per shot. Although it might seem weak, he has 50 ammo, incredible accuracy up close, a fast rate of fire AND the ability to gain back ammo via the shield. With snap, blazing trail is weaker then people think. It takes awhile to go in effect with not lasting long enough. Make it go in full effect in 0.5 seconds and make it last 5 seconds. Also as a side note, Brainium basher should the same thing with citron's dash and all star's tackle where it stops at the end for a second.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    5 years ago

    I largely agree here. Some of this would have to be tested as you point out, but we need some key changes to make stuff work, be fun to play as and against, and for a more balanced experience.

    One thing I would add would be to make Spikeweed more useful for Chomper. Right now you can ignore it most of the time; it's hard to get it to land where you want it and it's too easy to destroy; I think it has 25 health or so. I like being able to launch it over range, but it's the weakest part of Chomper's kit and if they adjust grody goop to be less powerful, it will make spikeweed's current poor state all the more glaring.

  • TheSprinter85's avatar
    TheSprinter85
    Hero
    5 years ago

    That is a very comprehensive list @SundropDot, and like most times, I pretty much agree with the lot. Corn does not deal enough damage to be particularly worthwhile. Sunflower and Scientist could definitely use some changes. 

  • benn1nat0r's avatar
    benn1nat0r
    5 years ago

    @SundropDot I agree with most of your changes. I would like to say I support @Iron_Guard8 's proposal of improving Spikeweed.

    I think the Citron shield health nerf goes too far. From 600 to 250, that is way too much. I would suggest 400 for starters.

    I have some more things I would change:

    • Make it so Super Brainz's Hyper Jump Thump has a 2 second longer Cooldown, but also that it deactivates all other abilities for 2 seconds
    • I think Snapgragon only needs a small decrease in range
    • Imp shouldn't have explosive escape. His reward for quitting Mech before running out of health should be that he himself doesn't explode. This is especially needed if your Mech Health Regen idea is implemented.
    • I think with a damage reduction, Citron's dash should have 2 charges with a 3 second delay between them
    • Although I think the dash damage reduction isn't needed, because All Start has the tackle and the ip bomb that can insta-kill low health classes.
  • SundropDot's avatar
    SundropDot
    5 years ago

    @agqwpe663oe6 I think that would be a good idea with Citron to do less damage. As I said, all the characters in tweaks would need testing and that is a fair point. It could be 1-2 Damage, but I think it should also be tested with 2-3 Damage. @benn1nat0r had the idea of two charges of Citron Dash with the reduce damage and I think that the two charges would help make up for the loss of damage for the primary.

    As for Snapdragon, I would think that he is overall fine. I changed the fire limit to 25 Health because with the secondary fire you can almost one shot someone, and in Battle Arena that is very annoying. It would not really impact the other game modes. For buffing Snapdragon, I don't think he should get it. I think he is fine right now and I do agree the Blazing Trail is not that good. If we were to change Snapdragon, I think we should change Blue Blazes to something like the PvZ2 plant food for Snapdragon and change the physics of the Blazing Trail as it is pretty weird how it works.

    I am going to address some characters that I did not mention.

    Peashooter 

    I don't think Peashooter is super strong or annoying. Before his buff he was an alright character and now he is pretty viable. I don't like straight nerfing characters, but I will do it for a temporary change to make them better overall. Peashooter is fine in my books.

    Night Cap

    I know people want Night cap to receive a small buff to her primary, but I would want to change her more than just her primary. Right now, Nightcap is not really apart of the meta since she is not a chunky character (150 HP+) and she is easily one shot by too many meta characters right now.

    Cactus and Cpt. Deadbeard

    Although the have some issues, the only real way to make them apart of the meta or more viable is to implement damage dropoff.

    Acorn & Oak

    I don't feel like they need any changes.at least Acorn. Acorn Passenger could use changes, but right now they don't need anything.

    Steam Blaster

    With the changes I want to Scientist's base kit, I think it would have weird effects on Steam Blaster and I would need testing to see if needs changes.

    Wizard

    Although I want to change Wizard, it would require to much work to do the changes I want for a balance patch for next month or so. Additionally, damage dropoff would have to be included to make him more according to what I would want.

    Thank you all for the support! I really want this game to become a more balanced and have interesting playstyles. I just hope Popcap does the right thing and starts to listen to their forums more here. 

  • GutmanSca's avatar
    GutmanSca
    5 years ago
    @benn1nat0r Man, I can actually agree with you here, but please, don't remove Explosive Escape. It's a balanced ability now that takes more than one minute at least to be used and has minor range than Beam Bomb.

    Not only this, but this ability marks Imp has an character.
  • SundropDot's avatar
    SundropDot
    5 years ago
    @GutmanSca Agreed. Explosive Escape is fine in my opinion. Only thing you could change is to have the same ejection style as GW2 if it gets too strong for some reason.
  • benn1nat0r's avatar
    benn1nat0r
    5 years ago

    @SundropDot I always thought this ability was very unfair. Imp is the one sitting in the damn thing, so why shouldn't he explode, but everyone else should? That has been my point of view on it. I don't like it, because nearly all game modes are based around capture points. It was so frustrating when imp called Mech in Turf Takeover and used explosive escape immediately.

    Considering the range of explosive escape has been nerfed, it might be fine. Another thing I don't like is that there isn't a sufficient indication it will happen for new players.

    As @GutmanSca said, explosive escape is something that defines Imp in part, and I neglected that fact. I just happen to remember him very negatively from the start of gw2. I quit the game because of him. He was so extremely op. I had the preorder bonus thing with the mega op z_mech. I was getting top vanquishes all the time without knowing what I was doing. 

    I think many new players don't know explosive scape exists and are frustrated when they suddenly explode. All other abilities in the game are more commonly known. Therefore, imp players can take advantage of that. I know Imp has been nerfed too much, but this still remains a source of anger for many. As a result I would like to suggest adding a clearer indicator. They could add a red circle to indicate the explosion range. This way even new players would understand that they shouldn't be in range when z-Mech explodes.

  • wp9isilpq8r's avatar
    wp9isilpq8r
    5 years ago
    @SundropDot Agreed, I'm not sure about brainwasher, citron and sunflower.
    I think that sunflower can stay like this, citron needs some shield hp nerf (not as big as you said) and a laser buff. I my opinion brainwasher can be changed by making it so you can't use abilities right after the charge ends (increase cool down of charge and uppercut) and make it so max charge does 110 dmg, (if you want to vanquish someone with 125 hp you need to combo it with uppercut, making you very vulnerable.

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