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Anonymous's avatar
Anonymous
10 years ago

What went wrong with GW2 and why I am worried for this series (longtime fan)

As a longtime Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare player and fan, I am simply concerned about the future of this franchise.

I have always been a lurker, but I am simply too frustrated to remain silent about the state of this game.

GW2 was supposed to be a victory for the fans and Popcap, and while the press praised the game with high scores (and not putting too much time into it), lots of fans have been vocal about many of the mistakes EA/Popcap have made.

And before I continue with my thoughts about what went wrong with GW2, I want to be very clear and say that I personally believe Popcap is one of the most talented studios in gaming.

The mistakes made on this game do not change the fact they create some of the best looking and sounding games in the industry.

But let me get to the main points of this post:

What made GW1 a classic in 2014 was the fact the game was accessible, simple and very straightforward to the player.

People would get on the game and immediately jump into action, enjoying a game that was not only fun to play, but also very strategic.

It was really special.

These are ALL elements missing in GW2:

The game is not so accessible, and the unlocking system is incredibly complex, grindy and annoying.

Yes, I have to play in order to get coins, I get it, but after spending 200 hours in the game I STILL don’t own any Legendary character.

And while Popcap calls this “exciting, because it makes these characters even more rare”, I feel like an idiot for spending 60 dollars on a game that forces me to to grind for hundreds of hours.

I do understand a great number of developers at Popcap were in love with Destiny (with Gary Clay being one of them), but that did not mean they had to turn the entire Garden Warfare franchise into a copy of Destiny (the Easter eggs give it away).

Guys, the beauty of the first game was the fact it was ACCESSIBLE, and this important value is now lost, with all of these weird design choices that mimic a game that has nothing to do with the franchise.

We went from one of the best team based shooters on the market to a semi-MMO grindy game that forces players to spend hundreds of hours to receive ONE character, or spend real money.

And do not get me wrong, I do understand there is a market for these type of games. Obviously, seeing how well Destiny did, there must be one.

But it does not mean this was what Garden Warfare had to become. It literally killed any aspect that people loved about the first one.

Like I said, GW was straightforward.

While the game was focused on online multiplayer, there was an incredible level of depth that players enjoyed. And now it is all gone.

GW2 is too frenetic, chaotic and filled with explosions.

I cannot be strategic anymore, I cannot take time to study my enemies and work on a great solution to counter their attacks.

I now have to jump into battle, and run/gun into my opponents, otherwise, it will take a few seconds for me to get vanquished.

Why is this?

Maps are beautiful, but their design is so “go and shoot eachothers” oriented.

The new characters have super advanced abilities and they make the old characters look weak and simply not on par.

Why would anybody pick a Foot Soldier when Super Brainz is literally better at everything?

I mean, it does not make any sense.

The old characters need serious improvements, which will not be included in this game, obviously (GW3, woooo…).

And now, here comes my biggest problem with GW2 and the main reason why the game failed to impress as GW1 did.

During development, Popcap had some very poor project management/planning, and this is something everybody can see. It is obvious.

Why do I say this?

Well, there a few elements that show us something went wrong during development and Popcap did not really understand their ambitions were too high for an 18 months development cycle.

  • Having a beta filled with balance issues, bad framerate, glitches and missing features one month before launch was really a bad sign. It just proved the game was not ready and the fact Popcap tried to put too much into it in a short time.

You cannot change the overall game speed one month before launch when you design maps considering that specific movement speed for each character. It is pure logic.

When you do that, you are going to break something.

This is why the maps feel off.

How could Popcap ask players to send their feedback 2/3 weeks before launch? What kind of testing is that, when the game is literally finished?

This says “poor planning” to me, and I am sure EA was pushing the devs to release the game at the end of February.

On the other end, Popcap made a huge mistake: thinking they could fit so much content in time, and being able to polish it with a little beta that lasted a few days.

  • Rose being as broken as she was literally killed the game at launch. I have seen a huge number of players being turned off by it after experiencing the absurd mess that character was for several weeks.

And in my mind I just cannot understand how testing and balancing is conducted at Popcap.

I am sorry. I understand making mistakes is human and game development is NOT easy at all (I do consider this while writing this post), but we are looking at one of the biggest reasons why the online servers are dying.

Whoever is responsible for the nerfs/buffs NEEDS to stop nerfing and buffing the same characters patch to patch.

One patch the Imp is nerfed, the other patch he is buffed, then nerfed, then buffed. And this happened with Rose too.

Can we cook these games for a little longer and not use customers as beta testers 3-4 months after the game release?

  • Why was GW2 launched as a 60 dollars title with such a strong competition in the gaming market for that month and season? Who planned that? Isn’t the marketing department supposed to think about these possible problems (especially when your game relies on a strong online population)?

It would be way wiser to launch this game as a 39,99 dollars game like GW1, especially when your competition is called The Division (which broke records when it comes to sales). Even Far Cry Primal did way better in sales, and that was a spin off.

Ratchet and Clank launched as a 40 dollars title and it was the most old game in USA last month, with some great competition.

I mean, the servers on PC are dying, the servers on console aren’t doing as bad, but not that hot, to be completely honest.

After seeing the game is not doing so well, and knowing how EA cuts franchises when sales are not the best, I am seriously worried about Garden Warfare. And Popcap being so silent does not help.

I would not be surprised if some major changes are happening behind the scenes, at the moment.

I love the franchise and I wish Popcap did not make those obvious mistakes when it comes to game design and marketing.

I would suggest to keep that 10 hours trial on console and PC, so at least there will be a decent amount of new players always populating the servers.

I doubt the online counterpart will be alive if this is the way things are going to be (PC EU is dead, PC NA is dying).

When it comes to future development, I would like to see an approach similar to Blizzard with Overwatch. That game was built with the community for the community.

Popcap, share your ideas with us, don’t be so secretive for “marketing sake”.

Look at what happened with GW2 and how the poor marketing and design choices lead to a game that bombed when it comes to sales.

Make a closed beta, share it with the players and test your characters before it is too late.

Before you work so hard on quests, story modes, Legendary items, get your gameplay right.

With that being said, these are my 2 cents about what went wrong with GW2.

I hope the next game will go for a style closer to GW1 and less crazy game design/marketing decisions that have nothing to do with the series.

I definitely think a 39,99 dollars model is the way to go. And PC should keep the 10 hours trial.

Anyways, thanks for reading.

Let me know if you agree, and feel free to share this post around if you share my ideas.

Marcus

29 Replies

  • Gosh, you're so daft. Nothing about being entitled, considering the point of the game is to use different characters and having fun. Nothing fun about having characters stuck behind a rng system that can literally never allow you to get the characters. Or are you going to continously ignore that part?

    And are you seriously comparing WoW to this? In what way is WoW and GW2 similar. Keeping staying on your knees. Good position for you.
  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago
    I don't mind the legendaries being tough to get. I do feel for the people who have every sticker from the shop and still can't get one though. I think once you have everything, it should be automatic on your next sticker pack.
  • @Screion

    The lack of balance made most of the people stop playing to be honest.

    This upcoming patch may address some but I'm not sure why buffing the Mech helps balance anything, just looking at all these patch notes and when the game was released really does make you wonder why developers release a game that is so broken to begin with. Players have moved on now, and at least for me there is still very little incentive to come back. Real gamers like balanced games.

  • Boy did this thread get derailed into how "dumb" the legendary system is.

    To tell you the truth OP, one of your points really is what's going on with this game, they tried to add too much to fast and got overwhelmed.

    Popcap has had just one year of experience in the shooter industry with GW1. Compared to other companies, they haven't had the time to really develop a mindset and know-how to create a very complex shooter that's balanced and not so hectic. They're a puzzle game company stepping into a highly competitive world, and GW1 succeeded because there were so many fewer variables that not too much was broken. Sure, Super Dumbmando and Agent Pea were a bit broken, but you only ever saw one or two per game, as opposed to GW2 where you might see six peashooters even if they aren't broken, because stacking classes in this game is overly effective due to the cramped maps and mid range panic dueling paradigm of combat.

    In layman's terms, the game is rooty tooty point 'n' shooty instead of strategic like the first one, that's why there's too many corn, peashooters, scientists, and super brainz. I have no idea where Soldier went, or Cactus for that matter.

    For what it's worth though, GW2 looks cool, the new characters are interesting, and the game has really blossomed (pun intended) into a vibrant, deep game with a lot of choices. But without careful attention, these choices have basically turned the game into a free for all that lacks strategy, planning, and common sense balance.

    I want this game to succeed so badly, but I'm not sure where it will go at this point.

  • could not agree more.

    And I want to add something to that. They really did listen to what we wanted from GW1. I said "I wish I could play all modes split screen and off line" and they did both. and then they added crazy settings and allow you to simi control team setup for bots. I love they did this.

    However to me the crippling blow was they used praise as feedback. People said they loved how funny the game was, so they made it a joke.

    >GW1 was not funny because it was a clown. it was funny because underneath all the strategy, the plot was so ridiculous it was anti climatic. and that is hysterical. But at the same time it was very well grounded. Most of the maps where in places that I could see myself living in. the world felt real. But now it's some kind of zombie town. It does not fit a realistic look, and honestly I feel its out of cannon.

    >on cannon I feel they messed it up. too much lore and dare I say personality was put into the zombies. They put a lot of work into creating a civilization for them. But can a zombie be civilized? would a zombie think "I should go to that new fish store and get a pet fish"? or would there thoughts be simply brainz? I love how in GW1 the zombies start in graveyards. It fits. I never imagined them as having a greater Existence. I feel like culture would be something zombies would have no idea about. much less an economy. the zombies are minions for zomboss. wearing armor from a graveyard. (the brown coats) with a few elite with special gear (the players) Everyone loved playing the elites from Halo Reach despite them having no lore in that game.

    >then the classes.... yah. I've talked about them before. here is a copy and past

    The reason the balance worked so well in the first game was because they played into each others hands. the plants were about making ground dangerous with splash damage (pea shooter) and crowed control (chomper). With the cactus keeping long range attackers away, and the sunflower healing and keeping zombies on their toes.

    The zombie would then try to uproot (hahaha) the defenses. The plants were about order and keeping boundaries. the zombies were chaos and breaking weak points. because this relationship was stable the game could "self balance" though smart play. 

    However it seems popcap thought they could add an assault class to the plants and expect that to allow them to push an objective in turf take over. however by there nature (as said above) the plants are about staying out of reach. They don't push a hill well. Any reason they could before in something like Suburbination was because the zombies needed to as well. allowing the plants to root in.

    For Herbal Assault they needed to not just copy G&G, but make some kind of game mode that still focused on that defense. I would have suggested some kind of train the plants ride to the objective in the same style as GGG. where the only way the train moves is if - like in G&G - the plants outnumber the zombies on the train. that way the pea shooter could root on the roof and stuff.

    They could have also given the pea shooter new specials focused on attack. maybe a new special could have increased there rate of fire or the speed of there projectiles? or maybe they wouldn't need to reload for a couple of seconds? these could have taken the place of the Pea Gatling.  I'm sure these are bad ideas. But I'm sure you get the point.

    >also the ambiance is WAY to loud. But other people have said that.

    in the end. I wish they had just made a big paid DLC for GW1

  • OMG, I totally agree w/ you. That's what I've been telling my viewers on twitch. I think there are way to many characters in this game. I don't think Popcaps is able to balance them at 100%. Also the maps are way to tight, feels like the devs have been playing way to much COD. I miss the open maps of GW 1. I love the game, I will continue to play it, but there are a lot of things that need to be fix.

    As for Legendary Characters, I think the drop rate needs to increase as your unlocking cosmetics. 

  • 100% agree. 20 million spent, over 250 hours played and not even ONE character piece.  At this point,  every sticker pack I open is 100% consumables,  so apparently not even mixing out your sticker book increases the odds of getting a piece.  It's a broken system that does nothing  but discourage people from continuing playing. I'm starting to think I won't even unlock a character before the third game is released. In my opinion, anyone who says the drop rate is fine either has a piece of a character,  has an entire character,  or hasn't played the game a lot. There's no one in my shoes that I can realistically see saying the drop rate is great. 

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    8 years ago

    ive played the first game and i miss the old maps they were so much better the new maps can't compare to old memories I'm concerned to we need the old maps back in I've played this game since i was 7 I'm not about to let it just let those old maps and better ones go away

  • Rose was op. I completely understand all your critiques, too. GW 1 has a simpler feel to it, with cool potted plants that are mostly missing in GW2. The spots were well designed and thought out to plan group or singular attack’s.

    And to answer your question, I would choose foot soldier over super Brainz any day because of range, powerful and sneaky abilities, and an easier way to get around, mostly. 

    Not to mention the higher amount of variation with foot soldiers class.

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