World Class Garden Warfare 2 Guide
So I have been working on, what I consider to likely be, the best and most comprehensive Garden Warfare guide in the world, and to do so I have been mastering every single character in the game to ma...
Forum Discussion
@dwooten77Unfortunately for right now I am streaming Injustice 1v1's, but will be getting into some PVZ later... Both in response to YOUR comment as well as the previous posters, let me explain this:
Tier lists mostly come from fighting game "communities", although a tier list (or various forms of leaderboard grading systems) can be applied to literally just about anything. The issue with the fighting game community is that they take every single character in the game and break down each character based on (what they call) "frame data".
Frame data is complex, yet simple, albeit has some factors that can ALTER the data, for better or for worse (usually for worse if you're legitimately good). For example: Let's say we have the Flash from Injustice, or Iron Man from the Capcom game, and say that when he throws out a normal punch (which is square on the PS4), then it is plus 10 frames on block. That means that if someone blocks his normal jab and tries to respond to said jab with a move that is like negative 50, The Flash or Iron Man will have been able to ALREADY RECOVER after his blocked punch (and block a counter attack with a block of his own, or even start up a new attack!). Does that make sense?
So tier lists in the FGC are based on both a scientific, but also an opinionated process:
1) Frame data is included, with one of the commentators of a tournament slipping up and saying they all have an "app" of it. But that's something I expected from long ago, the computer people would just put a complex AI algorithm together in an excel spreadsheet and determine who has the best overall math. Not too surprising, but none the less, an FGC tier list is partially based on frame data.
2) It's also based on a characters ability, if they have one.
3) It's USUALLY based on first to 10 matchups, but when played in the hands of "professionals" exclusively.
^---Meaning that if we have Superman versus Deathstroke and it is about a 10-3 matchup in Deathstrokes favor, that would make Deathstroke higher than Superman on the tier list, if some of the other factors added up right.
Back to Garden Warfare: Take the Chomper for a second. I can prove that he is probably the best 1v1 expert in the game, and beats out just about everyone in a 1v1. He may go as low as 5-5 with some characters (doubt it), but outside of 1v1's he can easily be killed.
So it all comes down to opinion with a tier list despite the fact that they are also based on SHEER SCIENCE, like mine will be. I am going to be releasing my tier list on my website (Legendary Gaming) in writing, so people don't steal my information and claim it was theirs later. Although the development team is aloud to fully implement any recommendations that I give in the tier list. But some random website or wikia is not aloud to just steal all of my complex analysis and pretend it was theirs the whole time.
That said: Places like the asukoju guy who already linked to a PVZ wikia might already have some good info on it, but alot of those places are community pooled information, meaning it has a tons of people gathering information about the subject and then putting it together. None of the players involved necessarily have to be elite players, either. So they are welcome to their opinion (I don't disrespect that), but 5 Olympic champion wrestlers going up against 5 senior high school wrestlers are going to win virtually every time.
So the point is that, although a tier list is somewhat imaginary, theoretical and opinion, it is also based on science. So with that said, some characters are just flatout BETTER than others. To answer your question, all characters can be shown how to be OPTIMIZED to the best of their abilities (from my opinion and perspective), but you simply CANNOT dominate with every character in the game. There's over 100 classes and all of them aren't at the top of the tier list, which is the way it should remain.
UPDATE: There's a couple of things I meant to post in the last thread but didn't want to dig through it and place these upcoming comments out of context in the above post, so let's point a few more things...
1) Leaderboards are very real. The World Strongest Man contest is built on them, so is the NFL, so are many online games, and a tier list is similar to a leaderboard, albeit in terms of who the best characters may be. Obviously in the ONLINE VIDEO GAMING WORLD, a leaderboard is less relevant, perhaps even null and void, if it has been hacked.
2) There are combos in the fighting game community called "frame perfect" combos (as well as the speedrunning community, albeit not "combos" but "maneuvers") which nearly rely that you be offline to perform such combos or maneuvers, yet in my thousands of hours of studying tournament/world class level footage, some of the combo extensions based on sheer percentage based damage, are relatively minimal (meaning such combos are DESIGNED to look more flashy than exhibit power). The things that can affect or manipulate fighting game frame data are (believe or not) the TV you are playing on! Is it on the game setting? Look it up? Doesn't even have to do completely with fighting games, but the wrong settings and different TV's can cause input delays, which equate to toying around with the frame data (since it's so precise).
The biggest arguments that "professionals" have against online players, most of these folks of whom I have beaten, is that the frames are slightly off online, which is true. But that's also based on netcode. Let's say the frames are perfect offline, which they aren't in many cases because of bad settings, bad TV's, possible shady situations I won't get into right now, or simply incorrect mathematical data stated in the menu. The "pros" argument is that the lag online changes the frames between 1 and 6 frames, depending on the game. I personally consider a 1 or 2 frame difference to be relatively insignificant. Yet some devs release games that have horrible netcode, then have their underling team talk about how you should only play in their offline tournaments.
Quite frankly: PVZGW2's netcode is better than Injustice 2's. And I don't say that to flatter anyone.
@IIINCORRUPTIBLE wrote:
The things that can affect or manipulate fight game frame data are (believe or not) the TV you are playing on! Is it on the game setting? Look it up? Doesn't even have to do completely with fighting games, but the wrong settings and different TV's can cause input delays, which equate to toying around with the frame data (since it's so precise).
This is something I've never heard of before, thanks for the tip. I don't know if it will make much difference but it sure can't hurt!@pandareno1999It is a tip that came (only once) on stream from an individual named MaximillianD00d, a Twitch streamer... And I thought he was incorrect at first, but turned out to be 100% correct. The fighting game tournament scene is (very high level), featured on ESPN, and the same people usually end up dominating because they are literal friends with the developers.
Just google the idea of frame data being manipulated by your TV and you will see what I (and originally Max) was talking about. It's another one of those inside tricks that higher level people will leave you blind to, never mentioning a word about it, just to have their advantage. That's what I like about Max, is that his commentating is excellent.
But no, it's not fake, google it. I've seen it cross referenced by people with bigger mouths (online) on the message boards of certain fighting games where they were more than willing to talk. And yes the same thing would likely affect PVZ.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought it might be dubious, just that I myself might not notice a significant difference.
I wish I could set my TV to automatically apply that setting to only the game console port. Switching it back and forth is gonna be a pain.
