@VetteC5RX 'Some' blaster heroes are easier to start with - like Iden, but not lando. A higher lvl lando or finn needs to work extra hard against a lower lvl Grievous. I'll have to disagree that high lvl blaster heroes are unmatched. I've seen high lvl saber teams destroy high lvl blaster teams just as I've seen the reverse.
High damage output, crowd control, un-blockable abilities - leia and han have high damage output over time but no crowd control except for shoulder charge, lando phasma bossk iden have crowd control but low damage over time compared to sabers - phasma and idens cc are also avoidable. Unblockable abilities like grenades, bossks bombs and idens secondary are not high damage and provide time to counter.
Saber heroes have unblockable pulls/pushes too, some cc, and high damage output and high mobility. I wouldn't consider these factors imbalanced across the board in saber vs blaster, it depends on the matchup.
@Ravudha “Some” blaster users are easer to start with simply due to their attributes, which are broke, when compared to the entire roster of characters. Idens Alt Fire does high damage, is unblockable, and can be buffed to use more frequently. In a peeperly balanced game the AOE and frequency would be offset with a lower damage output; especially considering she has a stun plus her DPS from her primary weapon. Hann is another example of an easy blaster user simply due to attributes. Detonate Charge’s damage is unblockable and high anywhere within its AOE, which is pretty large. The knock back from Shoulder Charge and Detonate Charge “can” be blocked but the damage cannot and even even blocked the user revives a stagger.
Lando and Finn are the two of the weakest blaster users and the only real exception to the lineup of unbalanced blasters. Hann has crowd control in both DC & SC because of the knock back potential as well as their deterrent factors. Leia doesn’t have crowd control anymore now that her grenades have changed but her damage output increase offsets that.
Lando, Iden, Hann, Leia and others all also benefit from strike immunity throughout their entire dodge roll and afterward. Given the dodge ability recharge rate for nearly all of the blaster users this allows them to evade strikes consistently.
Phasma, Lando, & Finn are the weakest blasters by far. Idens Alt Fire, Bosks mines all do high damage. Bosks mines can be avoided if not well placed but even still so long as he remains near them any attacker is going to take serious damage to approach him. His “float + dodge” combination also sees him able to evade saber strikes. I don’t know why you don’t think Alt Fire or Mines aren’t high damage. Non-high damage abilities are in the 50-ish range and are what abilities such as Pull, Rolling Charge, etc do. Damage in the 200 and up is high output.
Every saber hero physical manipulate ability can be evaded. The hardest is Luke’s Push as it’s instant cast but Annakin’s Pull can be avoided easily.
In order to create balance a characters abilities and their attributes must be evaluated collectively as well as in relation to every other character on the roster. This is game development 101. There’s no reason why Leia should be receiving kill on elimination, why Detonate Charge or Alt Fire should output more than 60 damage. When you compare all attribute stats the imbalance is clear.
It never used to be like that. In my game testing post TROS update is when the imbalances became really off.
@VetteC5RX I meant bossks bombs aren't high damage - his thrown ones, not the mines. Idens alt fire can be high damage but often is lower splash damage.
Bossk jumping away from jedi is basically a hail Mary - it's not some kind of magic evade. He can still be hit mid-jump or by jedi jumping around him. Bossk jumping away from jedi basically means he's in trouble and needs a little help. Some saber users can simply take idens alt fire head on as well as a stun and still close the gap to take her out. Otherwise, saber heroes can always just avoid her droid as well as landos aoe cc.
Blasters can roll, sure, but rolling is not infinite and it has breaks - it's far from a guaranteed get out of jail free card in close quarters. Saber heroes can strike more often than a blaster can roll. Rolling a few times is far from OP, it's basically to give blasters a fighting chance in close quarters where they would otherwise be hopelessly defenceless. All of these things are highly conditional and far from OP
Yes, Leia and Han have high damage output and they do things that can't be blocked. Many saber heroes have high hp to take the hit - a decent Vader doesn't care about this. There's another side to every situation here.
Saber hero abilities can be evaded while some blaster abilities can't be blocked at all. Yes, but I don't think this should necessarily be equal. A saber hero pulling a blaster into close quarters is generally more dangerous for the blaster than a blaster hero getting an unblockable shot off on a saber. They're not equivalent situations.
I definitely agree some blasters are strong while others are weak. But this is heavily focused on what blasters can do when sabers can do a whole lot to counter them as well or have their own strengths - e.g. Dooku can instantly knockdown cc a blaster and close in to 3-shot them, and let's not forget some saber heroes can completely neutralise blaster hero special abilities.
My main takeway is yes, there are imbalances but I don't conclude that overall blasters are OP vs sabers.
@AnakinVader34only if someone doesn’t know how to people play / use blaster character or picks one of the weak blasters like Finn or Lando.
No saber users have abilities that can deal 150 to 200+ of unblockable damage AND have crowd control to boot PLUS have strike evasion to the degree blaster users do.
Combining all of those attributes together sees a blaster user having distinct advantages that saber users simply don’t. That’s aside from the fact that blaster users have an intrinsic benefit of being able to do damage from a distance whereas saber users must be in close proximity to do damage.
when you lay all of the attributes and characteristics out on the table, together; the OP imbalance is clear. Not all players may be using those imbalances properly or to their maximum degree but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Experienced players are using them.
@Ravudha Bosks mines are 75 damage per mine and he can have up to 5! That’s 375 unblockable damage; sorry that’s high damage by any definition. That’s half health for most saber heroes all in its own right.
Bosk jumping, yes, is a Hail Mary, I agree; but combining jump + dodge + jump + dodge is the primary issue. All blaster users benefit from a delay in strike recognition post dodge. Pairing that with Bosks “floaty” like high jump ability and overall speed means that Bosk is able to keep himself out of saber hit detection for a majority of his “Hail Mary” period; enabling him to recharge mines and other abilities.
Idens Alt Fire does high damage and has a relatively high AOE (not as big as Hanns DC but still pretty large). Annakin can approach Iden and take some Alt Fire shots but because the AOE is so large even jumping to avoid them still sees damage. Idens stun duration is paired with the highest rate of fire in the game at 680 works out to a stun duration damage output of around 250 assuming none are headshots; pair that with an Alt Fire at the end of the stun and you end up with a total damage of around 400! And that’s just during her stun; that’s half of Annakin’s heath pool and if he took damage on approach he’s pretty low at this point. That is a lot of damage potential to have such high evade attributes.
Rolling isn’t unlimited but the dodge recharge rate for blaster heroes is significantly higher than it is for saber users. All players have two dodge abilities by default but the recharge between uses for blasters is so short that it enables them to abuse it. A blaster user can begin to dodge which grants strike immunity and roll behind tbe saber user. As the saber user turns around the blaster user has already recharged the dodge ability and uses another ... keep up this back and forth while your abilities recharge. For a user like Hann who also has SC & DC you only need to juke back and forth for a little bit before you’re able to dole out big damage and disruption to your opponent. Since the doge abilities grant the degree of strike detection nullification that they do it means the opportunities to land a saber strike are very small and short.
only your two “tanky” saber users have any hope of absorbing the kind of damage output most of these blasters can dish out. That’s not balanced gameplay. I do evaluate these things as imbalances because blaster users can intrinsically deal damage at a distance, something saber users can’t do. Pulling a blaster user is only capable by two characters and they have to be in blaster range to do it. Annakin’s pull has a respectable range but Kylo’s doesn’t, plus Kylo’s pull cast time is so long the Telegraph is clear and saber users can dodge it easily.
these examples you cite aren’t consistencies in the gameplay and aren’t equilateral among all characters; not everyone can pull, not everyone has high health, not everyone has damage reduction.
A comprehensive evaluation of balance comes from placing all character attributes and passive elements on the table and comparing them together. It’s not compressive to say “well character X can counter with this or character Y can do this” because neither of those examples are constant aspects of the gameplay. When you evaluate everything together there are clear takeaways that most blaster users should have more of an offset than they have. That’s the mistake the developers made when they over corrected most of the blaster users.
