Forum Discussion
@VetteC5RXYour point about the timing reminds me about back when people requested to include some sort of advanced saber combat mechanics in order to find a solution for the constant hiding behind the saber block problem.
Well, glad they didn't add something like this, especially in greater modes with the lag issues this would've turned hero play into a catalyser of frustration.
I'm glad I get the parries done in these modes, however lag problems are still coming and going. Some months ago it was outright unplayable.
I'm not so happy about the starfighter controls either lol. When I enter first person mode, I keep falling back to the old habit of Battlefield when piloting a jet and try to change directions with rolls. The only reason to use rolls in this game is to win these attritious loopings as the turn radious of steering up is better than left or right. Whatever starfighters weren't meant to be the thing in this game anyways.
My biggest disappointment in this game's features is probably the whole ability layout of Count Dooku.
They made him play a very specific role like Chewbacca which renders him rather useless in infantry modes.
That great potential dmg output doesn't make up for these counterproductive animation windows, even his short-ranged single flashbolt is far from being useful as soon as you hit more than two soldiers at once. Not that you need a debuff ability when duelist already OHK every non-heavy soldier either.
It feels like he was only balanced around HvH, you'll risk everything in supremacy where Maul and Grievous can conveniently just chainsaw through their opponents with their way to cover big distances.
Even in HvH I don't feel threatened much by him because in order to not die by his hands I just need to wait until his ability effects wear off, which he always announces with these animations. No need to halt stamina regeneration on blocking until Dooku gets close enough to hug me.
Unlike the other saber heroes who can instantly choke/pull/freeze you from distance if you let your guard down.
@TRlALON Yeah the game used to be a block spam but all they needed to do (and did) was to add block stam .. that’s it! Nothing else is needed. This whole “parry” thing people speak of is just awful and has no place in a game like this. There isn’t an “actual” parry mechanic in this game and there shouldn’t have been an attempt to add a watered down parry-like mechanic.
You have characters that have different swing per second rates and different damage per strike values which makes any sort of parry concept a very poor choice for this title.
All that was needed was block stamina. If someone wanted to spam block their stamina would have to be managed. It’s clear the Devs didn’t get this correct either because look at Kenobi! With the right cards he’s practically a stamina wall! Plus when you take into account the fact that the game doesn’t recognize saber strikes during defensive rush it gives Kenobi the ability to drain stam and regen lots of health.
This is just an example of the imbalance I’m talking about. You’re right about Dooku and, Chewbacca on the other hand; he has two un-blockable crowd control options; stun and slam. If played properly Chewbacca can melt even a Vader because his bow caster shots can’t be deflected so if one deals damage at rage then uses stun, deals more damage then follows up with slam for the guaranteed knock back Chewie will drain health. Chewie gets the same benefit with dodge immunity that all blaster heroes do which sees them totally immune from strikes or abilities for the entire duration of the dodge and the dodge ability regen is just really high on blaster users now which I do think is a bit OP; especially for Han.
Dooku is another one who’s imbalanced but he doesn’t need to rely solely on his abilities; yes they do leave him broken because the strike speed of Duelist combined with the bad hit detection will see strikes bypassing block which is garbage. Dooku has high dodge rate and high dodge distance so even while he’s in cool down he can evade practically everyone except Luke (who’s also broken).
The truth is people now over use dodge because in the past you could dodge out of a strike or ability AOE and avoid it but now players are immune to abilities during dodge which is nonsense. Some players that are broken (like Luke) see the game engine struggling so hard to resolve him in the space & time that he’s supposed to be in that even if Luke is taking strikes at a player (ie not in block) the game will ignore an ability used on him; it’s not detecting him within the AOE; I’ve seen this happen with Rey also.
The way that the mechanics work together is poor quality and, in truth, could be resolved by simply not having many of them that aren’t necessary in the first place.
don’t get me wrong I’m not saying the game is total trash I’m just saying they over worked it because there was a time when the overall gameplay quality was better and even though we got some good updates the Devs seemingly lost perspective here.
- 5 years ago@VetteC5RX Hp regen is really high on blasters? Huh? Try planing any mode with ATST's or some toxic supercharged sentry targeters...
- 5 years ago
When Grievous is the only one bugged enough to ignore people's rolls during claw rush lol.
The problem is just that if we let blasters ignore abilities by rolling, same should apply to sabers too for fairness and vice versa if they'd scrapped this feature.
Yeah, trying to parry Vader can turn into a death sentence when the other player just has the better connection or lag issues on the server.
By the time you try to parry a strike of a spamming Vader under such circumstances, you are in fact the one who gets parried by his second strike because of different server information. Then Vader can continue to sneak another two or even more strikes into even when you immediately block again because his high attack speed always welcomes lags.
It's true, the parrying in this game is in fact an exploit (same like block break jump attacks) and not fair because of the reason above, but apart from maybe trying to dodge behind someone there isn't really anything else this game offers to win against another saber user without depending solely on abilities.
In BF2015 there was a block stamina that would deplete itself over time and in return no attack stamina so you were at least able to attack someone.
- 5 years ago
@soapy_catuses No I said dodge regen is high on blasters, not HP regen
- 5 years ago@VetteC5RX on my braincell amount decreased by 10
- 5 years ago
@TRlALON Yes and I’m not surprised. The way the nerfed claw rush it’s not as good of an offense ability as it once was. Yeah it used to be broken and I’m not so upset that it ignores dodge since it can only damage any one player one time (it can damage multiple players but not any one more than once) so that seems fair.
What you’re seeing with Vader is because there really isn’t a proper parry mechanic in the game and combined with the haphazard strike staking and input recognition it becomes total RNG feeling to strike swap; especially with Vader. Unless his stam is all but gone I wouldn’t try it.
That’s one of the issues we see with the game, it doesn’t play consistently. You can do the same things in different matches and get different outcomes because of the underlying mechanics. One thing a developer should never do is totally revamp the gameplay method and that’s essentially what we got in some of the latter updates. Another long standing contributor on this forum led a great campaign to get the Devs to (partially) correct changes to how players transition from dodging & blocking, which, was so bad it was game changing.And the thing to remember with blaster users is that their whole concept is distance damage. That’s why they have a blaster and why their damage output is so high. The whole point is to deal damage to an opponent while you’re out of their attack range. For this reason most blaster users have solid crowd control save for a couple (Leia & Finn are very lacking here). The combo of high damage plus crowd control itself is fine but once you add in higher mobility with dodge immunity and dodge recharge then you have a broken combo which is what we see out of users like Han, Chewie, and Iden.
Say what you will about BF 1 2015 but I LOVED it. No, it didn’t have a campaign but I was ok with that. We had great multiplayer maps, troopers that worked well, heroes and villains that worked well and worked consistently. It’s an example of how less can be more. If EA had simply expanded on that recipe with BF 2 we’d be golden but they over worked it as though it’s a Skyrim title with all of these mechanical conditions and logical imbalances that work against the good things it has going for it.
- 5 years ago
@VetteC5RXYeah the biggest deal of saber users is simply that they bring a sword to a gunfight.
Main work is done by abilities while the saber itself often just serves as side weapon to finish off ranged opponents.
The infantry modes portrays this really well, too much suppressive fire means no way to just straightforward walk up and slay them, tactics and force support is eventually needed. Tanks and open maps with few covers are a threat too if you try to get closer to someone.
How well it works to mainly just use the sword is visible when trying to play as Dooku in infantry modes. Forget about it with combat rolls and stuff being a thing.
Rey maybe has no range too, but at least it's possible for her to get rid of the pesky minimap info, sneak up to them and obliberate anyone in a chain with the dash once close enough.
BF2015 allowed much freedom in customization, the most annoying and cheesy aspects of the BF2015 are combined in Iden Versio lol.
- 5 years ago
@TRlALON Yeah as a saber user in large game mode maps you really have to be careful about how you approach or you’re going to get mobbed by blaster fire; and that’s ok, that makes sense. In those modes Heroes & Villains are supposed to be a supplement to the match, not dominate it and while I feel that “mostly” is the case it really isn’t in many ways, especially when you have multiple blaster heroes & villains on the field.
In HvV it’s really bad. They really killed the HvV & HS game modes with the imbalance.
Iden is great in story mode; in multi I can’t stand her, she’s broken. It’s not a huge adjustment either, a reduction in damage from Alt-fire would make her good & balanced but as it is now she can just spam alt fire for free large AOE damage, even if it’s right at her own feet! Same with Hans Charge; it’s un block-able and does crazy damage. The other thing I haven’t been able to figure out is how blaster users can maintain fire during disruptions like pulls & knock backs. I don’t know whether it’s the game trying to execute the input stacking or whether the mechanics don’t fully apply or what. For example Kylo can freeze a Leia or any blaster user and see two or three shots still fire after the freeze; or in the case of Kylo’s pull, Annakins pull or even Luke Push the blasters will still fire while they’re disrupted which minimizes the disruption greatly.The Devs have to remember to go back to basics. This is a huge franchise and many players gravitate toward characters they like and to have them so imbalanced that they’re depending upon one particular gameplay aspect or they’re dependent upon support protection reduces the gameplay flexibility. People can’t play the game they want to because if they want to win they have to play in a way to exploit the broken parts.
- 5 years ago
@VetteC5RXDon't remind me of these continued shots of people when pulling or pushing them. The game seems to attempt to sync both things together somehow, while the blaster user won't notice this weird behaviour at all on his end.
Same when you suddenly die and the guy on the other end tells you that he wasn't pushed or pulled at all, even when you see him being ragdolled away. That happened too, mix it with lag.
Remember how the devs had to fix the AI behaviour in Co-op that allowed AI soldiers to keep shooting all the way while being pulled?
These are the things
ToddGod Howard likes lmao. - 5 years ago
i get hype any time i have a competent enough team to win jabba's palace as rebels in extraction
- 5 years ago
@computerson Try Co-Op as the Empire on Endor 😂😂😂 .. phase 1 sees you having to defend 3 command points with only a 4 man squad and AI spawning from literally all directions; many of which aren’t accessible by the players.
#Dieforthecause
- 5 years ago
The only time co op isn’t fun is where there’s like a billion AI taking the last CP for themselves.
Coupled with the 8 second (?!?!) spawn timer and how far away you spawn + depending on teammates’ availablility
- 5 years ago
@FearfulWarpIIWether co-op is fun or not, for me, depends on side and map.
some of the scenarios are just mind bogglingly bad. The last phase of Mos Esley as the Empire is a joke .. one small point to cap that’s overly cluttered with scenery too low to move around but not high enough to cover and being clapped on all sides ... no bueno
In most of the scenarios the design of the hold or capture point combined with the AI spawn makes it often overly aggressive. It’s appears as though the AI are supposed to come in from various directions, and they do, but just as often you’ll have one direction clear and as soon as you turn around an AI has spawned right behind you and you’re mobbed.
in some of the maps & scenarios the end phase is just messy; the amount of enforcers and specials that spawn and spam rockets or thermal imploders is ridiculous.
It’s not an awful game mode but it could definitely use some polishing.
- 5 years ago
Back to topic: After a very long round of supremacy, I got a new kill record.
Well, we needed 4 attacks on that dreadnought until we finally won while the enemy had the chance on our ship 2 times as well, so you can imagine how long that game was.
It really felt like a Clone Wars battle; we rushed the Republic with hordes of clankers but clanker brains just didn't get anything done on that Venator.
I've never witnessed something like this before, but it was really hilarious lmao
- 5 years ago@TRlALON How can I learn this power?
- 5 years ago
@soapy_catusesYour opponents needs to be a halfway competent defender team that loves camping corners with Clone Commandos and ARC soldiers on the dreadnoughts.
Also it was funny how the team in this match adapted to the fact that I was using Grievous often on both ground and dreadnought maps so their top players kept using heavies instead of assaults and officers as previously, knowing that then the surgical strike at least wouldn't one-hit them anymore due to the higher HP.
Your team needs to consist of players that fail to realize that the Commando Droids for such scenarios really aren't the best choice and keep ignoring that the B2 Super Battle Droids exist too.
That's how you'll get a row of unsuccessful dreadnought assaults (Even as Bossk I can't do all the attack work alone) and a long kill grind for yourself.
- 5 years ago@VetteC5RX omg that level is so frustrating. if you don't have a squad you stand very little chance
- 5 years ago@TRlALON this had to have been like a 2+ hour match. yikes!
- 5 years ago
@computersonThis is exactly how it was lol.
Though from my time as Battlefield 3 veteran I'm used to it. Server admins would often set really high ticket numbers on conquest servers like 999, so one match could take really long there as well.
- 5 years ago@TRlALON If only OT Supremacy had ship phases and ST Supremacy had 1 more map (Starkiller) added to it, all 3 Supremacy eras would truly give the sense of pride and accomplishment. PT Supremacy is really the only one with a complete vision, and I ain't a prequel fan boi or anything even though I still enjoy the era.
- 5 years ago@computerson
Yes, now we are back on topic.
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