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BluesyMoo's avatar
BluesyMoo
5 years ago

Re: Please fix Rotational Inertia! There is too much!

@RivenAlreadyReg wrote:

So you basically want to make the already arcadey physics to be even more arcade? It's already on rails enough as it is. It would be super boring if you didn't have to wrestle the spacecraft at least a little bit. That's part of the fun. 

It would be the opposite. The game has its high rotational inertia because gamepads cannot do precision aiming. They can easily be centered (due to deadzone) or pushed to extremes (due to short travel), but holding a precise input is impossible. The high rotational inertia favors rapid, extreme inputs, which is most gamepad inputs. It therefore allows the imprecise gamepad to compete with the precise flight sticks.

The side effect is all precision aiming goes out of the window, so aim assist is needed.

The side effect is that, since there's aim assist, the smaller profiles of TIEs now give them no advantage whatever, and TIEs must now be made tanky because shots that would have missed them, will now hit.

All of this compromising for the gamepad has taken away a lot of the skills such as precision tracking shots (sluggish ship prevents it), and snap shot timing (aim assist corrects it).

8 Replies

  • JesuJuvaOU's avatar
    JesuJuvaOU
    5 years ago
    @BluesyMoo Well-said! I am afraid you are right. I had not quite made all those connections, because I am less familiar with console controllers. Yes, I also miss when your aim *had* to be more precise to hit, but the ship's maneuver *allowed* you to be that precise, at least some of the time. It allowed a culture of competition to be among the best at flying and shooting, and the players who loved those games generally eschewed the use of missiles and other complications. This is obviously a very different game than that. I don't need it to be exactly the same. I like the different maps, different loadouts, missile possibilities and other customizations. That's all great. I just want to be able to aim quickly and shoot quickly and have those skills *matter.*

    I do think they could make at least some *modest* reductions to the angular momentum out of turns and not mess up the console players too much. It does affect them too. The drift continues well after the controller goes back to neutral. So that means it is a problem for console players as well as everyone else, right?

    So while I see your points about how they chose to balance the game for consoles, I don't think fixing this issue would unbalance the game too much.
  • BluesyMoo's avatar
    BluesyMoo
    5 years ago

    "your aim *had* to be more precise to hit, but the ship's maneuver *allowed* you to be that precise,"

    Indeed. So this means that the gunnery aspect of the skill ceiling has been lowered compared to classic games, because there are skills that have been removed. No one can acquire it, and no one can exercise it either.

    I still like the hardcore mode idea, because console players *can* go and acquire HOTASes and be free to exercise these leet gunner skills, as long as the game allowed these skills to exist. It's like GT Sports e-sports, where no one uses gamepads - steering wheels only!

  • Elphaba's avatar
    Elphaba
    5 years ago
    @BluesyMoo Get a HOTAS, set all deadzones to zero, yaw, pitch and roll sensitivity to 100% and it’s fine. The ships don’t have ENOUGH inertia; more would make proper dogfighting like in the movies. Less is just an arcade feel.)

    Get proper controls and you’ll feel very differently.
  • BluesyMoo's avatar
    BluesyMoo
    5 years ago
    @Elphaba wrote:
    @BluesyMooGet a HOTAS, set all deadzones to zero, yaw, pitch and roll sensitivity to 100% and it’s fine. The ships don’t have ENOUGH inertia; more would make proper dogfighting like in the movies. Less is just an arcade feel.)

    Get proper controls and you’ll feel very differently.

    That does work, but as a workaround by limiting the flight stick precision to imitate a gamepad. It's way *more* arcade that everyone's inputs are mostly driven to the extremes, and everyone relies on magic bullets to hit targets consistently. The more inertia the less you can track targets, and the more you need magic bullets. Check out how players in actual arcades play - they jam the controls to extremes all the time, and the games are designed to tolerate / encourage such behavior. Games designed for ham fisted controls are literally arcade.

  • Ugondiefoo12's avatar
    Ugondiefoo12
    5 years ago

    The OP is correct.  This "rotational inertia"  needs to be eliminated.  It is not realistic and doesn't conform with basic physics and it makes aiming and flying much more difficult than it should be.  In a car if you center the wheel after a turn it doesn't continue to turn.  If you are swinging a sling around your head and you release it flies in a strait line; it doesn't continue to go in a circle.  Likewise, if you center your flight stick your fighter shouldn't continue to turn; It should go strait. This is physics 101.

  • Lollipopisdead's avatar
    Lollipopisdead
    5 years ago

    Or, next time you want to play a fps, just buy a fps. Then you will be able to play point and clic adventure.

    This is a (arcade) flight sim.

  • SatheA's avatar
    SatheA
    5 years ago

    This is no point and click shooter, we are flying a multi-ton spacecraft and the human body needs to withstand g-forces, even in Star Wars. Coming to a sudden stop after a 9+ G turn would shoot your brain right through your cranium and most likely through the canopy as well. VR users in an A-Wing can easily adjust stick input when the target comes in sight while pulling a high G turn. Without VR finding the right moment to let go of the stick input is difficult. The heavier the spacecraft the more sluggish the controls, that's actually good.

  • Billkwando's avatar
    Billkwando
    Rising Vanguard
    5 years ago
    @Elphaba wrote:
    @BluesyMooGet a HOTAS, set all deadzones to zero, yaw, pitch and roll sensitivity to 100% and it’s fine. The ships don’t have ENOUGH inertia; more would make proper dogfighting like in the movies. Less is just an arcade feel.)

    Get proper controls and you’ll feel very differently.

    Been there, done all that. Aim is still very twitchy (everything else about flying is pretty much perfect though). I know I'll get used to it eventually, but I worry it's too much of a learning curve for the average player. and that a lot of folks won't make it....but I've never played it with a regular controller, only HOTAS, so it's probably fine for them. I hope.

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