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Re: Thanks for installing crapware in the guise of anti cheat with out notice

Oh boy, where to begin. I'm not complaining that an anti cheat system exists. I'm complaining that there was no notice on the store page or anything in the Eula, nor any consent prior to installation.

1🙂 I do use security software extensively;. What some seem to be missing is what ring level 0 access means. The software has direct access to the windows kernel  equivalent to root level for any Linux people if something in ring 0 has bugs or security flaws  it could be used to exploit the system with out user awareness. since its whitelisted security software wont stop  malware thaty hoock in to a signed process. That is why this is bad.

2🙂 "Only cheaters complain about anti cheat har har" That's such a well constructed rebuttal I might as well get off the internet :P In fact that statement is the height f ignorance. That's on the same level as saying "only thieves and criminals care about DRM

3 🙂 the counter argument seems to come  down to "but muh game" with out considering  the wider implications.  when people cant assess risks that's how exploits happen.

9 Replies

  • CarbonCarl's avatar
    CarbonCarl
    Hero (Retired)
    6 years ago
    @Horus_Blackheart
    I myself understand what ring level 0 access is and I’m quite happy to allow that on my system if it makes for a good anti-cheat.
    You only need to look at the complaints on the battlefield forums to see what happens when you don’t allow ring level 0 access. Like I said it’s a no win for EA.

    And sure it’s a fair point if you wanted to know prior to installation, but if you were so concerned about something like this I thought you would have looked this up beforehand?

    There is a thread that’s been on this forum for a while where I mentioned the game uses Easy Anti-Cheat.

    I mean what would you do if they did tell you prior to installation, ask for a refund? Because it would make zero sense to make it optional.




  • @CarbonCarl Let me get this straight. You are totally fine potentially compromising your system to stop a few cheaters Further you expect buyers to research all the potential anti cheat systems EA Could implement with no contest prior to buying the game? If so that makes no logical sense.
    If they had disclosed it prior I would have assessed the risks and impact on my system then decided if the trade off was worth it.(its not). .Having made that determination I would have not bought the game. Further more I rarely look at these boards so while you were aware of the system used I'm betting a majority were not aware of the implementation. I would take valves Vac system over anything that needs ring 0 access to function. Anyone that really wants to cheat will and compromising everyone system to try and stop that is like hiding under a table when a nuke go's off kabuki theater at best.
  • CarbonCarl's avatar
    CarbonCarl
    Hero (Retired)
    6 years ago
    @Horus_Blackheart Well I have been playing multiplayer games for many years and have never had issues with my system due to anti-cheat software like this; you would be surprised how many games actually use kernel lvl anti-cheats.
    All the battlefield games up until bf1, fortnite, rainbow six siege, gears 5, master chief collection, PUBG, even CSGO and the list goes on and on.

    So after all these years I’m pretty confident my system will not be compromised whilst using these programs and ultimately make my gaming experience far better.

    The only time my concerns would differ on this is if it were an unknown anti-cheat program implemented by unknown devs/publishers etc.

  • @CarbonCarl I'm very well aware of how prevalent kernel level anti cheat software is. Which is why I don't play games like Apex legends et all. Kernel level anything is a sloppy brute force approach with a limited window of effectiveness and way to many drawbacks . It will stop casual cheaters. But anyone who is dead set on cheating will cheat regardless. It's similar with drm those that want to pirate will regardless all the publishers can do is slow it down. and paying users are inconvenienced to buy a few days or weeks at most.
  • CarbonCarl's avatar
    CarbonCarl
    Hero (Retired)
    6 years ago
    @Horus_Blackheart
    Yeh I understand it's never full proof, I don't think anything is that could be implemented tbh other than staff sitting on servers monitoring them.

    It's a difficult situation for sure but I do think these type of Anti-Cheats make a noticeable difference and i'm all for that.

    I think one good solution to this could be offering some form of incentive to community members to help police servers, maybe then no anti-cheat would be required. Just a thought. 🙂
  • Hi I installed this game and started it up and it brought up the anti cheat window which is fine by me. 

    But then I was denied entry

    FOR WHAT? 

    lightingservice.exe

    Asus AURA RGB software 

    That's WHAT

    So I turn off the lights, no biggie

    OH NO that's not good enough. I have to end it in the process tree in order to play. 

    BEWARE MY LIGHTS I WILL CHEAT YOUUUUUU

  • @Webmetalreese that is unfortunately one of the issues I was talking about. Another common one is fan control software or over clocking, which in some rare cases can brick hardware due to temp or voltage spikes.
  • @CarbonCarl What you suggest would defiantly be a start perhaps a hybrid approach? I don't mean to come down hard on people just wanting to enjoy the game ether. But people have to understand the wider implications of a scattershot solution kernel anything is in this context not to mention the lack of transparency. Beyond that troubleshooting false positives is a big issue.
  • Webmetalreese's avatar
    Webmetalreese
    6 years ago

    @Horus_Blackheart wrote:
    @CarbonCarlWhat you suggest would defiantly be a start perhaps a hybrid approach? I don't mean to come down hard on people just wanting to enjoy the game ether. But people have to understand the wider implications of a scattershot solution kernel anything is in this context not to mention the lack of transparency. Beyond that troubleshooting false positives is a big issue.

    Yeah I mean I don't play online multiplayer games to cheat and make peoples lives miserable and I read the EULA and understand the need of course for PvP related activities:
    Monitoring and Anti-Cheat Measures

    EA utilizes technologies to detect and prevent cheating in the use of EA Services. and in particular, EA Games. These technologies may be developed by EA or a third party.

    When you launch an online-capable game, these technologies may activate using kernel, admin or user privileges, and monitor your gameplay and device’s RAM, processes, communications, and file storage for the purposes of detecting violations of, and enforcing, the Code of Conduct in Section 6, including the use of Unauthorized Third-Party Programs. An Unauthorized Third-Party Program is a third-party program or file (such as a "add-on", "mod", "hack", "trainer", or "cheat") that EA believes (i) enables or facilitates cheating of any type; (ii) allows users to modify or hack the game interface, environment, and/or experience in any way not expressly authorized by EA; or (iii) intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the game.

    EA may collect relevant information needed for our investigation and enforcement purposes such as your account information, details related to an Unauthorized Third-Party Program, any EA PC Game files that were modified, and times cheating was detected. We also may terminate your License and your EA Account if we determine you have been cheating.

    When you exit an online-capable game, these anti-cheat technologies will be deactivated.


    With that being said how does ones overclocked RAM or give you the right to get into my kernel as an admin and look at my communications? I fail to find anything regarding RGB services in violation of Section 6:
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:

    • Violate any law, rule or regulation.
    • Interfere with or disrupt any EA Service or any server or network used to support or provide an EA Service, including any hacking or cracking into an EA Service.
    • Use any software or program that damages, interferes with or disrupts an EA Service or another's computer or property, such as denial of service attacks, spamming, hacking, or uploading computer viruses, worms, Trojan horses, cancelbots, spyware, corrupted files and time bombs.
    • Interfere with or disrupt another player's use of an EA Service. This includes disrupting the normal flow of game play, chat or dialogue within an EA Service by, for example, using vulgar or harassing language, being abusive, excessive shouting (all caps), spamming, flooding or hitting the return key repeatedly.
    • Harass, threaten, bully, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.
    • Contribute UGC or organize or participate in any activity, group or guild that is inappropriate, abusive, harassing, profane, threatening, hateful, offensive, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invades another's privacy, or is otherwise reasonably objectionable.
    • Publish, post, upload or distribute UGC or content that is illegal or that you don't have permission to freely distribute.
    • Publish, post, upload or distribute any content, such as a topic, name, screen name, avatar, persona, or other material or information, that EA (acting reasonably and objectively) determines is inappropriate, abusive, hateful, harassing, profane, defamatory, threatening, obscene, sexually explicit, infringing, privacy-invasive, vulgar, offensive, indecent or unlawful.
    • Post a message for any purpose other than personal communication. Prohibited messages include advertising, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes and other types of solicitation or commercial activities.
    • Impersonate another person or falsely imply that you are an EA employee or representative.
    • Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff.
    • Attempt to obtain, or phish for, a password, account information, or other private information from anyone else on EA Services.
    • Make use of any payment methods to access or purchase EA Services for fraudulent purposes, without permission of the authorized owner, or otherwise concerning a criminal offence or other unlawful activity.
    • Use any robot, spider or other automated device or process to access EA Services for any purpose such as scraping data or copying material.
    • Modify any file or any other part of the EA Service that EA does not specifically authorize you to modify.
    • Use or distribute unauthorized software programs or tools (such as "auto", "macro", hack or cheat software), or use exploits, bugs or problems in an EA Service to gain unfair advantage.
    • Engage or assist in cheating or other anticompetitive behavior (such as boosting, collusion, and match or matchmaking manipulation).
    • Use or distribute counterfeit software or EA Content, including EA Virtual Currency.
    • Attempt to use an EA Service on or through any service that is not controlled or authorized by EA.
    • Sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer or offer to transfer your EA Account, any personal access to EA Services, or any EA Content associated with your EA Account, including EA Virtual Currency and other Entitlements, either within an EA Service or on a third-party website, or in connection with any out-of-game transaction, unless expressly authorized by EA.
    • Use an EA Service in a country in which EA is prohibited from offering such services under applicable export control laws.
    • If an EA Service requires you to create a "username" or a "persona" to represent yourself in-game and online, you should not use your real name and may not use a username or persona that is used by someone else or that EA determines is vulgar or offensive or violates someone else's rights.
    • Engage in any other activity that significantly disturbs the peaceful, fair and respectful gaming environment of an EA Service.
    • Use information about users publicly available in any EA Service (e.g. on a leaderboard) for any purpose unrelated to the Service, including to attempt to identify such users in the real world.
    • Promote, encourage or take part in any prohibited activity described above.

      So if you are going to utilize 3rd party software then by all means please spend some of your money to make it decent? I don't see VAC having issues with the RGB strips and the like. 

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