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Re: [Thread title edit - Admin.]

That's true that no one should have expected anything else from this game but simple 5v5 arcade/simulator PvP game with short story mode. 

But no one (well ok exept few with previous experience with EA) were expecting game quite litterally full of bugs and not workin design choices acompanied with close to non existing support and customer service. Devs ignorant attitude towards their pruducts serious flaws is something i have not seen since scam called life is feudal. 

At this point we can be quite sure that this game will never be fixed. It is what it is. Never trust EA again. 

13 Replies

  • So, I see that the admin changed the title. All style over substance or is that the extend of what the role is (genuine quiestion, unsure at this point what these forums are for besides acting as a lighting rod....)?

  • MKh501's avatar
    MKh501
    6 years ago
    @Darkangle2000now I have to agree, all I see from the community managers/mods is " we'll pass in on to the team ", nothing else. I'm imagining the "team" being locked away in a bunker somewhere in a desert, living on rations and being given printed screenshots from the forum posts once a week.
  • Two groups of people not to disappoint:

    Gamers

    Star Wars fans

    We all know the number one rule; don’t cross the streams!


  • @Jorpaz wrote:

    But no one (well ok exept few with previous experience with EA) were expecting game quite litterally full of bugs and not workin design choices acompanied with close to non existing support and customer service. Devs ignorant attitude towards their pruducts serious flaws is something i have not seen since scam called life is feudal. 

    At this point we can be quite sure that this game will never be fixed. It is what it is. Never trust EA again. 


    The question that should be asked is whether there would have been merit to having a public beta before release? Some of those issues might have got exposed that way. Generally the benefit of public betas are doubtful though because most people participate not to help improve the game by trying to make it break and crash and report on those instances but to have a free and early play of the game so I can understand that Motive decided against that.

    That said, it is a total overreaction to call the developers having an ignorant attitude. Same as with almost any launch of a new game (not to speak of launching it across three platforms with cross-play) there are a number of issues coming up once there is a proper stress test post launch. The devs will be currently playing whack-a-mole and working on the bugs first which affect most people and continue in that order. The joystick deadzone problem affected a huge portion of players: fixed. People losing their progress in campaigns will have been encountered by the majority: fixed. VR problems affecting about 15% of players: most likely being worked on with urgency right now. Ranking bug is very annoying but only 5.5% of players (on steam) have even completed their placement matches: will probably have to wait until after VR ... personally I'd like them to focus on disconnect issues and not being able to re-join first.

    Also don't foget: EA is a huge publisher while Motive is a comparably small development studio.

  • @Me_mumblecake You seem to find it normal everything releases unfinished nowadays?

    All you sum up could have been done beforehand. It was a choice not to.
  • Me_mumblecake's avatar
    Me_mumblecake
    6 years ago

    @Darkangle2000now wrote:
    @Me_mumblecakeYou seem to find it normal everything releases unfinished nowadays?

    All you sum up could have been done beforehand. It was a choice not to.

    How do you know that it was a conscious "choice" not to. As someone who actually earns their bread and butter with software development I can tell you that it is a lot harder to test against all corner cases than you think. How do you know what the root cause of e.g. the ranking problems is. Is it an inherent problem in the code that is always visible, is it only showing itself when the servers are under a certain load, does it have to do with your latency, possibly your PC slowing down at a specific point due to background processes? How do you know what was a conscious decision and what was not? With almost all problems that pop up it is either something that seemed so obscure to the developers that they simply didn't think about it or it simply worked on their clean test machines which will have an excellent connection to the servers. With regard to pushing out a quick-fix ... that's not so easy. There is a lot of red tape. A patch will need a software development plan which will need drafting, reviewing and signing off, requirements need to be collected, reviewed and signed off, a test plan needs to be created, reviewed and signed off (a lot of that can be mostly copy-pasted but it still takes a lot of work). Only when all of this is done is the developer actually allowed to touch the code. Not adhering to the strict development process which will be in place will result in unmaintainable code so this is avoided at all cost (there are very rare exceptions where the paper work is done afterwards because a bug that disruptive has snuck in that the company simply can't afford to walk the process). Depending on the size of the team and the scale of the change it can take the better part of a week before any code can even get touched.

    Another very important point is that while a product is in development it doesn't generate revenue so a small team like Motive will always be against the clock not to run out of money. Now they won't cut corners that would knowingly lead to severe issues (though they are human and can simply underestimate the impact of a known issue) but the chance of those is always there. Properly following the process above will have already minimised the risk here but it is certainly not zero. The problem is not that games companies have "chosen" to deliver unfinished games. The problem is that games have become bigger and bigger over the last 20 years but the money constraints have stayed the same ... no money until release. Striving for perfection is the enemy of progress. It takes 20% of time to get 80% of the job done and 80% of time to get the last 20% of polishing done. The project managers have to walk a fine line on how far to take the polishing. Also, 20 years ago a released game could almost not get changed. Broadband was less than 1Mb/sec so patches wouldn't get widely adopted. With a pure online game like squadrons it is much easier to add some polish after release.

    Personally I think that you simply lack the experience and understanding of software development to accuse the developers of malicious conduct. You want to see malicious conduct? Have a look at how Blizzard messed up the remaster of WarCraft 3. They were telling lies and were even removing features which are to this day still advertised on their website.

  • Jorpaz's avatar
    Jorpaz
    6 years ago

    Is it really overrection to say that devs have ignorant attitude? Really they got the info about all the problems quite quickly after launch. Then they made quick fix half a**ed where they stated that number of bugs have been fixed and HOTAS deadzone bug was not fixed they just got over the bug without actually fixing it and most of the other bugs they said were fixed didn't get fixed. Most of the bug fixes did nothing it seems. But the worst thing that actually made me say that they have ignorant attitude is the complete lack of information from the devs. They have not told that they are even fixing these known bugs after their bug "fix" patch. 

    Pretty much all of these bugs would have been found on beta test even if players that got to test just played and wrote to devs if they encountered problems. You have to remember that these problems most likely were not caused by stress. Most of these problems are caused by bad design choices and would have been far easier to fix before launch. Some of these bad design choices might be so hard to fix that they wont fix them. 

    All so i don't know where you get your numbers but im quite sure that the ranking bug affects larger player base than the VR bugs. Players that have this game on steam are minority i think or this game all ready have very few players because if you check there is around 4000-5000 players playing this game via steam. All so the way the connecting to matches work i'm afraid that they simply cant solve that problem.

    EA being big publisher most likely is the reason this game was launched like this. Small dev was not able to meet deadline of huge EA it seems.


  • @Jorpaz wrote:

    All so i don't know where you get your numbers but im quite sure that the ranking bug affects larger player base than the VR bugs. Players that have this game on steam are minority i think or this game all ready have very few players because if you check there is around 4000-5000 players playing this game via steam. All so the way the connecting to matches work i'm afraid that they simply cant solve that problem.


    15% of players are playing in VR

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/757334954605674576/765396421238063164/120966863_3400827723337180_4452131187288316455_o.jpg

    5.6% (on steam) have completed their placement matches:

    To answer your question "where you get your numbers": from official sources.

  • Jorpaz's avatar
    Jorpaz
    6 years ago

    Like i said i don't think steam players are majority of players so we don't know how large part of players have done their placement matches in total. So we don't know if its larger part or not. 


  • @Jorpaz wrote:

    Like i said i don't think steam players are majority of players so we don't know how large part of players have done their placement matches in total. So we don't know if its larger part or not. 


    It is a representative sample ... true, gaming habbits could differ from platform to platform (xbox, PS4, steam, epic, origin) but it is highly unlikely that it will be off by a factor of three

  • @Me_mumblecake Nice reply, too bad you assumptions are both off and show a lack of insight on QA practices. So funny you are a dev, that makes 2 of us. The only difference is prolly that I am a one man team, my releases are anything but perfect, but, if you look at steams top 20 played vr games, mine ís in there, flawed and all. Yes, you mention ranking and such not being clear through testing, weird, stresstesting reveals an aweful lot of issues.

    It's a choice not to test properly. It ís a choice to release an unfinished product. Take it from me when I say release dates are more about personal bonus, and les about putting the best possible product out there.
  • Thunderhead0002's avatar
    Thunderhead0002
    6 years ago

    Case in point: I'm typically a PC gamer, not console, but I got a console specifically so I could do squadrons in VR. I didn't want to spend even more to get a VR PC.

    $700 for PS4 pro and VR

    versus

    $1200-1300 for a new/up-to-date gaming PC rig capable of VR

    $400-500 for a decent PC VR

    I DON'T think MOST people are necessarily playing this on PC.

    Of my 4 friends playing this:

    1 is on PC

    1 is on XBOX

    2 are on PS4

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