Apply Paper NS Zombie Logic to Grand Arena—a better matchmaking algorithm is needed

GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

"Kyno;c-1735569" wrote:
GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

“Power,” as in a character’s power, has always been in the game. Galactic Power, which reworked character power into something meaningful, was added for Territory Battles. A guild needs a lot of Galactic Power to complete Territory Battles, and many guild-oriented players have been growing their GP for that game mode.

Players should not be “punished” for doing so, which is what I would describe being grossly mismatched in a brand new PvP game mode. There are ways around that. For example, making a brand new PvP GP number that only takes from characters that are G10+. Or just not using GP at all and matching people based on similar roster-wide gear levels, as I previously mentioned.

"Bubblechomp;c-1735585" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735569" wrote:
GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

“Power,” as in a character’s power, has always been in the game. Galactic Power, which reworked character power into something meaningful, was added for Territory Battles. A guild needs a lot of Galactic Power to complete Territory Battles, and many guild-oriented players have been growing their GP for that game mode.

Players should not be “punished” for doing so, which is what I would describe being grossly mismatched in a brand new PvP game mode. There are ways around that. For example, making a brand new PvP GP number that only takes from characters that are G10+. Or just not using GP at all and matching people based on similar roster-wide gear levels, as I previously mentioned.

GP has always existed and was the sum of a characters power. They changed the characters power to represent what investments have been made into the toon rather than the mulitpiers and other factors it used to be to try and make a toons power be representative of their power in a match.

Players are being matched against someone who has made a similar amount of investment into their roster. The players choices on how they allocated that is the players choice. If someone has invested that into useful toons, or as the dev team stated in your quote used "strategic resource management", why shouldnt they have an advantage?

Everyone had the same opportunities to make the same choices.

Matchmaking should be neutral and should not judge the players choices, this is what GP does it is neutral. As with every development choice we make it effects our future. The players choices should make or break them as they move into a new area or just progress through into the future.

"Kyno;c-1735592" wrote:

"Bubblechomp;c-1735585" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735569" wrote:
GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

“Power,” as in a character’s power, has always been in the game. Galactic Power, which reworked character power into something meaningful, was added for Territory Battles. A guild needs a lot of Galactic Power to complete Territory Battles, and many guild-oriented players have been growing their GP for that game mode.

Players should not be “punished” for doing so, which is what I would describe being grossly mismatched in a brand new PvP game mode. There are ways around that. For example, making a brand new PvP GP number that only takes from characters that are G10+. Or just not using GP at all and matching people based on similar roster-wide gear levels, as I previously mentioned.

GP has always existed and was the sum of a characters power. They changed the characters power to represent what investments have been made into the toon rather than the mulitpiers and other factors it used to be to try and make a toons power be representative of their power in a match.

Players are being matched against someone who has made a similar amount of investment into their roster. The players choices on how they allocated that is the players choice. If someone has invested that into useful toons, or as the dev team stated in your quote used "strategic resource management", why shouldnt they have an advantage?

Everyone had the same opportunities to make the same choices.

Matchmaking should be neutral and should not judge the players choices, this is what GP does it is neutral. As with every development choice we make it effects our future. The players choices should make or break them as they move into a new area or just progress through into the future.

No one predicted Grand Arena, and for years Territory Battle called upon GP growth. Your argument only applies had players had prior knowledge. Again, there’s more fair ways of going about it. A new game mode should have a new style of GP. Just like mods got their own mod energy, and ships got their own ship energy. I don’t understand the point of arguing against changes for more fair matchmaking, it’s a little bizarre.

I disagree. It's entirely about the paper zombie issue. We can't level down characters, so some are disadvantaged in GA.

A whale could invest in literally only meta characters and only have them at G12 with 0 purple characters. Say his GP equals 3mil. He's been playing so much that he has enough materials to go to 4mil or so but doesn't use those materials.

I'm just throwing arbitrary numbers around to prove a point but GP has never been an indicator of roster usefulness. Which is I think the OP is making light of. The paper zombie was a strategy to make zombie more useful by NOT using resources on her. They changed that because they wanted players to use their resources for characters to be useful. But in GA, useful only extends to about G11... Making the G10 and below roster almost useless.

Yes the whale I proposed earlier is strategically using his resources for elite characters only which gives him an advantage, but the dev comment that makes this post make sense is "Players don't have the ability to level down a character". Because someone invests in their roster, they are disadvantaged. That is the point.

"Tanzos;c-1735610" wrote:
I disagree. It's entirely about the paper zombie issue. We can't level down characters, so some are disadvantaged in GA.

A whale could invest in literally only meta characters and only have them at G12 with 0 purple characters. Say his GP equals 3mil. He's been playing so much that he has enough materials to go to 4mil or so but doesn't use those materials.

I'm just throwing arbitrary numbers around to prove a point but GP has never been an indicator of roster usefulness. Which is I think the OP is making light of. The paper zombie was a strategy to make zombie more useful by NOT using resources on her. They changed that because they wanted players to use their resources for characters to be useful. But in GA, useful only extends to about G11... Making the G10 and below roster almost useless.

Yes the whale I proposed earlier is strategically using his resources for elite characters only which gives him an advantage, but the dev comment that makes this post make sense is "Players don't have the ability to level down a character". Because someone invests in their roster, they are disadvantaged. That is the point.

Bingo, thank you.

"Bubblechomp;c-1735602" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735592" wrote:

"Bubblechomp;c-1735585" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735569" wrote:
GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

“Power,” as in a character’s power, has always been in the game. Galactic Power, which reworked character power into something meaningful, was added for Territory Battles. A guild needs a lot of Galactic Power to complete Territory Battles, and many guild-oriented players have been growing their GP for that game mode.

Players should not be “punished” for doing so, which is what I would describe being grossly mismatched in a brand new PvP game mode. There are ways around that. For example, making a brand new PvP GP number that only takes from characters that are G10+. Or just not using GP at all and matching people based on similar roster-wide gear levels, as I previously mentioned.

GP has always existed and was the sum of a characters power. They changed the characters power to represent what investments have been made into the toon rather than the mulitpiers and other factors it used to be to try and make a toons power be representative of their power in a match.

Players are being matched against someone who has made a similar amount of investment into their roster. The players choices on how they allocated that is the players choice. If someone has invested that into useful toons, or as the dev team stated in your quote used "strategic resource management", why shouldnt they have an advantage?

Everyone had the same opportunities to make the same choices.

Matchmaking should be neutral and should not judge the players choices, this is what GP does it is neutral. As with every development choice we make it effects our future. The players choices should make or break them as they move into a new area or just progress through into the future.

No one predicted Grand Arena, and for years Territory Battle called upon GP growth. Your argument only applies had players had prior knowledge. Again, there’s more fair ways of going about it. A new game mode should have a new style of GP. Just like mods got their own mod energy, and ships got their own ship energy. I don’t understand the point of arguing against changes for more fair matchmaking, it’s a little bizarre.

No it had nothing to do with prior knowledge. There was no reason to blindly push GP, beyond the point of usefulness. There are useful teams for TB, and TW, focusing on those would build GP and allow players to not just have fluff.

If players saw a value in building GP for TB that is their choice, many of us did it, but we each us have to weigh the value of the investment.

The GP matchmaking is fair. GP is the match of investment. Then the players choice on where it was invested was on them.

Not liking the choices we made doesnt make the system unfair.

"BubbaFett;c-1735647" wrote:

"Bubblechomp;c-1735602" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735592" wrote:

"Bubblechomp;c-1735585" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1735569" wrote:
GP has always been there, it was different before, so it was trying to represent more of a usefulness number and it was failing at that. They changed it to represent an investment. Each toon now has a power that represents how much you have invested in them.

Your total GP is how much you have chosen to develop your roster, what you have available to use is about your choices.

They state the core is about investing more into a character gives you more. This is absolutely true, even now with GA, and has nothing to do with the paper zombie issue.

In their own words they are talking about wanting strategic development and strategic resource management to be a core tenant of the game and that it should always benefit the player to do so. This still holds true for GA. Some have done it more than others and are benefitting from it right now.

For those of us that have wider rosters, there will be a longer development curve, but that has always been the nature of the game. Very few are ready for a new raid or game mode when it comes out and there are always "wasted resources" that hurt our development into the "new thing". We adapt, we develop and we all try to get better.

At no point will anyone stop developing their roster and get or do better at GA, that would be against what they have stated as the "spirit of the game" issue stated with 'paper zombie'.

“Power,” as in a character’s power, has always been in the game. Galactic Power, which reworked character power into something meaningful, was added for Territory Battles. A guild needs a lot of Galactic Power to complete Territory Battles, and many guild-oriented players have been growing their GP for that game mode.

Players should not be “punished” for doing so, which is what I would describe being grossly mismatched in a brand new PvP game mode. There are ways around that. For example, making a brand new PvP GP number that only takes from characters that are G10+. Or just not using GP at all and matching people based on similar roster-wide gear levels, as I previously mentioned.

GP has always existed and was the sum of a characters power. They changed the characters power to represent what investments have been made into the toon rather than the mulitpiers and other factors it used to be to try and make a toons power be representative of their power in a match.

Players are being matched against someone who has made a similar amount of investment into their roster. The players choices on how they allocated that is the players choice. If someone has invested that into useful toons, or as the dev team stated in your quote used "strategic resource management", why shouldnt they have an advantage?

Everyone had the same opportunities to make the same choices.

Matchmaking should be neutral and should not judge the players choices, this is what GP does it is neutral. As with every development choice we make it effects our future. The players choices should make or break them as they move into a new area or just progress through into the future.

No one predicted Grand Arena, and for years Territory Battle called upon GP growth. Your argument only applies had players had prior knowledge. Again, there’s more fair ways of going about it. A new game mode should have a new style of GP. Just like mods got their own mod energy, and ships got their own ship energy. I don’t understand the point of arguing against changes for more fair matchmaking, it’s a little bizarre.

Because everyone's definition of "fair" is different...... Just like your interpretation of the devs zombie tenant is different.....

I have a top heavy roster that took a lot more work and investment than someone with tons of useless G7 toons laying around that they never use.... Should I then be "punished" with a more difficult match up because I focus on a team of five at a time and get them g12 and zeta before moving on?..... Is that "fair"?

You keep bringing up TB.... But skip over the fact that TW then came afterwards and has been around over a year.... Your artificial inflation, while helping your guild jump rewards brackets, actually decreases their chances of winning..... And, as far as TB goes, I get more points than many of my guildies that have 20-30% more gp than I do simply because my strong teams finish all stages of all combat missions.....

The game has evolved, we have g12 plus, 6 dot mods etc.... The devs have simply introduced a game mode that encourages players to pursue them... The game has been trending this way for a long time... You either have to adapt or get left behind....

There’s a reason a featherweight doesn’t fight a heavyweight in the UFC, even if they both have the same height.

I’m simply opening dialogue based on prior dev logic and suggesting an improved matchmaking system. Regardless of where you stand, or your roster, it’s backwards to argue against improvement. Nobody should be punished, and I doubt the game programming is too rigid to come up with a better algorithm. Same versus same is all I’m asking for, and GP is not an indicator of that.

"Tanzos;c-1735610" wrote:
I disagree. It's entirely about the paper zombie issue. We can't level down characters, so some are disadvantaged in GA.

A whale could invest in literally only meta characters and only have them at G12 with 0 purple characters. Say his GP equals 3mil. He's been playing so much that he has enough materials to go to 4mil or so but doesn't use those materials.

I'm just throwing arbitrary numbers around to prove a point but GP has never been an indicator of roster usefulness. Which is I think the OP is making light of. The paper zombie was a strategy to make zombie more useful by NOT using resources on her. They changed that because they wanted players to use their resources for characters to be useful. But in GA, useful only extends to about G11... Making the G10 and below roster almost useless.

Yes the whale I proposed earlier is strategically using his resources for elite characters only which gives him an advantage, but the dev comment that makes this post make sense is "Players don't have the ability to level down a character". Because someone invests in their roster, they are disadvantaged. That is the point.

What disadvantage?

They didnt invest in useful characters, but should be catered to to make them more competitive?

If you dont have a competitive roster, you are at a disadvantage because of your roster not because of your GP. That is a players choice.

Paper zombie was because they stopped and had an advantage, no one is stopping and having an advantage, they developed strategically and have an advantage. That's the way it should be.

Again, please read the dev statements:

At its core, this strategy primarily breaks a core tenant/rule of the game - investing more deeply in a character should always be better in terms of gameplay outcomes; more health, more damage, more functionality, etc. This is a game about strategic resource management and you should be rewarded for strategically investing in a character. People who did this investment were then punished, because there is no way to “level down” a character. This doesn’t always perfectly hold up, but we do our best to hold to the spirit of that core pillar as much as we possibly can.

No one is being punished for strategic investment.

I keep seeing repetitive rhetoric and nothing new added to the conversation. I said my peace.