C-3PO + CLS Phase 4 Traya

"Woodroward;c-1785437" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785313" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785080" wrote:
After thought, I think I would want to run both Jyn and Bistan over bb8 and Han.

Jyn can give a teammate 100% tm so you can have her give Ezra 100% tm and call 3p0 2x plus will be able to remove tm fairly consistently and gain bonus turns doing so.

Bistan will constantly have frenzy and will take numerous turns and has chances to remove tm. Plus he gives all allies 20% tm when he pops frenzy.

Tm gain seems like it would be a little better than with BB and raid Han, but with the added benefit of more sources of tm removal which will presumably be more reliable. You'd have 12 potential debuffs to be resisted with each Oh My Goodness and the amount during each turn would be much higher. Jyn could get 2 with truncheon strike. Bistan could get 6 a round. Ezra could be getting 4 a round. CLS could get 5 a round. So that's 29 chances to gain 5% tm on a resist, plus 20% tm from Bistan (so 16 resists would equal 100%tm) and a chance at tm removal on top of it all.

I mean, for tm removal, do we really care whether or not it gets resisted? Seems like it's a win either way, and probably a bigger one if it doesn't.

Because of the stacking tenacity and gaining tm eventually Traya will take turns since you won't be able to remove hers anymore (it will pretty much only be Jyn removing it anyway). But it seems like this might be comparable to NS vs Nihilus in this phase.

You do lose the damage buffs from bb8, but it seems like you'd be able to control Traya's tm better. May lead to a higher overall score. The only real issue I see is that occasionally 3p0 may take turns where OMG isn't off CD, but I don't think that will stop the tm train from rolling if he does. There's just too much of it.

Jyn and Bistan don’t generate 2 assists for C3PO, so his cooldown does not reset every turn, which ruins things.

I tried Hera just now in place of BB8. It doesn’t work well, for 2 reasons. First off, you now have 3 cooldowns you need reset (Hera, C3PO, Ezra) instead of just 2. That means you basically need to get 3 stacks on Hera where you only needed 1 on BB8. This means it takes longer to setup.

Second, the order of turns is not completely predictable, which means there were times when Hera, C3PO, and Ezra wouldn’t go in order, which means one of them would go before they got their cooldowns reset, which would throw off everything. This happens because of the TM gain Ezra gives C3PO, and because there are so many resists that characters are frequently pushed into 100% TM ties and it comes down to RNG.

The team wiped before it could get setup on my first try and got 1.3 million on my 2nd try. Which is respectable, and I could probably bump it up to over 1.5 easily and maybe approach 2 million with better mods, refined mechanisms, and RNG. But still a far cry from the 4 million the original team can do.

...as I stated Jyn can give ezra 100%tm so he can call 3p0 to assist 2x. So Jyn and Bistan DOES generate 2 assists for 3p0.

Even if he didn't, with this setup, you'll have so much extra tm gain over the original comp, you could actually afford to let 3p0 take a turn without his cds reset anyway. (2 ezra assists + 20% from Bistan is 100% which means with 20/29 resists 3p0 gets 2 turns a round, it actually becomes 20/32 when 3p0 takes a 2nd turn) He'll still get 2 turns in before the clock starts to tick again.

This setup can deal with 3p0 not getting called 2x before his turn without it being an issue because it just has more room for error.

Jyn’s special has a cooldown of 4. She can’t help generate and assist every turn, unless you make it a rotation of 3.

so how exactly does the team look ?
jyn lead, cls, ezra, c3po, bistan ?
or cls lead ? jyn lead gives out unresistable exposes...

"Otsego;c-1785557" wrote:
so how exactly does the team look ?
jyn lead, cls, ezra, c3po, bistan ?
or cls lead ? jyn lead gives out unresistable exposes...

Has to be CLS lead or you don’t get TM from resists.

So two things occur to me when replacing Han: That's replacing multiple resists per turn, and also replacing his damage. In p4 it's not a potentially infinite loop, as she will always gain tm from Furious Foe. So the team has a finite number of turns, so high damage counts. Leia could work, but on the other hand, replacing Han's double shot with multiple debuffs on a single hit sounds ideal. Cassian I think could work, but he seems to have naturally high potency. I don't know how hard Bistan hits on his basic, but he does seem like a good choice. Although if the idea is saving Han for p3, keep in mind you're either using him on a 3PO team which kills this, or Chex Mix, which uses CLS. So you don't NEED to replace Han. If you're doing something else for p3 (Bounty and the Beast, etc.) then you'll have Han available.

For replacing BB-8, I like the Chopper idea on paper. Things could get messed up if 3PO gets the speed up and goes too early. But like BB-8, he doesn't need three stacks to reduce cooldowns, and even if he reduces Ezra's, that might give you a chance to have him call 3PO again. The assists to Ezra and 3PO mean more chances to reduce, as well as get resists.

"crzydroid;c-1785783" wrote:
So two things occur to me when replacing Han: That's replacing multiple resists per turn, and also replacing his damage. In p4 it's not a potentially infinite loop, as she will always gain tm from Furious Foe. So the team has a finite number of turns, so high damage counts. Leia could work, but on the other hand, replacing Han's double shot with multiple debuffs on a single hit sounds ideal. Cassian I think could work, but he seems to have naturally high potency. I don't know how hard Bistan hits on his basic, but he does seem like a good choice. Although if the idea is saving Han for p3, keep in mind you're either using him on a 3PO team which kills this, or Chex Mix, which uses CLS. So you don't NEED to replace Han. If you're doing something else for p3 (Bounty and the Beast, etc.) then you'll have Han available.

For replacing BB-8, I like the Chopper idea on paper. Things could get messed up if 3PO gets the speed up and goes too early. But like BB-8, he doesn't need three stacks to reduce cooldowns, and even if he reduces Ezra's, that might give you a chance to have him call 3PO again. The assists to Ezra and 3PO mean more chances to reduce, as well as get resists.

Replacing Han is not an issue at all I would think. You would lose some damage, but nott too much. Remember that it doesn’t have to be a rebel either, because we have more than enough resists to play with. Someone like NS spirit would be great here. She will probably never get her own turn, but that’s ok. Make sure she has foresight when the cycle starts and she will deal very nice damage on her basic and provide 2 resists.

I just don’t see the chopper option. There is only an 18% chance on each turn to reduce someone’s cooldowns, and it’s random on who if it happens. Maybe more if Ezra’s double attack rolls twice, I don’t know how that works, but still, it is random and unreliable.

"Bulldog1205;c-1785521" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785437" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785313" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785080" wrote:
After thought, I think I would want to run both Jyn and Bistan over bb8 and Han.

Jyn can give a teammate 100% tm so you can have her give Ezra 100% tm and call 3p0 2x plus will be able to remove tm fairly consistently and gain bonus turns doing so.

Bistan will constantly have frenzy and will take numerous turns and has chances to remove tm. Plus he gives all allies 20% tm when he pops frenzy.

Tm gain seems like it would be a little better than with BB and raid Han, but with the added benefit of more sources of tm removal which will presumably be more reliable. You'd have 12 potential debuffs to be resisted with each Oh My Goodness and the amount during each turn would be much higher. Jyn could get 2 with truncheon strike. Bistan could get 6 a round. Ezra could be getting 4 a round. CLS could get 5 a round. So that's 29 chances to gain 5% tm on a resist, plus 20% tm from Bistan (so 16 resists would equal 100%tm) and a chance at tm removal on top of it all.

I mean, for tm removal, do we really care whether or not it gets resisted? Seems like it's a win either way, and probably a bigger one if it doesn't.

Because of the stacking tenacity and gaining tm eventually Traya will take turns since you won't be able to remove hers anymore (it will pretty much only be Jyn removing it anyway). But it seems like this might be comparable to NS vs Nihilus in this phase.

You do lose the damage buffs from bb8, but it seems like you'd be able to control Traya's tm better. May lead to a higher overall score. The only real issue I see is that occasionally 3p0 may take turns where OMG isn't off CD, but I don't think that will stop the tm train from rolling if he does. There's just too much of it.

Jyn and Bistan don’t generate 2 assists for C3PO, so his cooldown does not reset every turn, which ruins things.

I tried Hera just now in place of BB8. It doesn’t work well, for 2 reasons. First off, you now have 3 cooldowns you need reset (Hera, C3PO, Ezra) instead of just 2. That means you basically need to get 3 stacks on Hera where you only needed 1 on BB8. This means it takes longer to setup.

Second, the order of turns is not completely predictable, which means there were times when Hera, C3PO, and Ezra wouldn’t go in order, which means one of them would go before they got their cooldowns reset, which would throw off everything. This happens because of the TM gain Ezra gives C3PO, and because there are so many resists that characters are frequently pushed into 100% TM ties and it comes down to RNG.

The team wiped before it could get setup on my first try and got 1.3 million on my 2nd try. Which is respectable, and I could probably bump it up to over 1.5 easily and maybe approach 2 million with better mods, refined mechanisms, and RNG. But still a far cry from the 4 million the original team can do.

...as I stated Jyn can give ezra 100%tm so he can call 3p0 to assist 2x. So Jyn and Bistan DOES generate 2 assists for 3p0.

Even if he didn't, with this setup, you'll have so much extra tm gain over the original comp, you could actually afford to let 3p0 take a turn without his cds reset anyway. (2 ezra assists + 20% from Bistan is 100% which means with 20/29 resists 3p0 gets 2 turns a round, it actually becomes 20/32 when 3p0 takes a 2nd turn) He'll still get 2 turns in before the clock starts to tick again.

This setup can deal with 3p0 not getting called 2x before his turn without it being an issue because it just has more room for error.

Jyn’s special has a cooldown of 4. She can’t help generate and assist every turn, unless you make it a rotation of 3.

Yeah, I suppose her landing tm removal with truncheon strike to generate another turn would be mandatory but it's not guaranteed so it probably wouldn't work as well.

Ackbar could probably work. With all his self tm gain he's got a good chance to go before ezra and pop tactical genius.

"Woodroward;c-1785829" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785521" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785437" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785313" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785080" wrote:
After thought, I think I would want to run both Jyn and Bistan over bb8 and Han.

Jyn can give a teammate 100% tm so you can have her give Ezra 100% tm and call 3p0 2x plus will be able to remove tm fairly consistently and gain bonus turns doing so.

Bistan will constantly have frenzy and will take numerous turns and has chances to remove tm. Plus he gives all allies 20% tm when he pops frenzy.

Tm gain seems like it would be a little better than with BB and raid Han, but with the added benefit of more sources of tm removal which will presumably be more reliable. You'd have 12 potential debuffs to be resisted with each Oh My Goodness and the amount during each turn would be much higher. Jyn could get 2 with truncheon strike. Bistan could get 6 a round. Ezra could be getting 4 a round. CLS could get 5 a round. So that's 29 chances to gain 5% tm on a resist, plus 20% tm from Bistan (so 16 resists would equal 100%tm) and a chance at tm removal on top of it all.

I mean, for tm removal, do we really care whether or not it gets resisted? Seems like it's a win either way, and probably a bigger one if it doesn't.

Because of the stacking tenacity and gaining tm eventually Traya will take turns since you won't be able to remove hers anymore (it will pretty much only be Jyn removing it anyway). But it seems like this might be comparable to NS vs Nihilus in this phase.

You do lose the damage buffs from bb8, but it seems like you'd be able to control Traya's tm better. May lead to a higher overall score. The only real issue I see is that occasionally 3p0 may take turns where OMG isn't off CD, but I don't think that will stop the tm train from rolling if he does. There's just too much of it.

Jyn and Bistan don’t generate 2 assists for C3PO, so his cooldown does not reset every turn, which ruins things.

I tried Hera just now in place of BB8. It doesn’t work well, for 2 reasons. First off, you now have 3 cooldowns you need reset (Hera, C3PO, Ezra) instead of just 2. That means you basically need to get 3 stacks on Hera where you only needed 1 on BB8. This means it takes longer to setup.

Second, the order of turns is not completely predictable, which means there were times when Hera, C3PO, and Ezra wouldn’t go in order, which means one of them would go before they got their cooldowns reset, which would throw off everything. This happens because of the TM gain Ezra gives C3PO, and because there are so many resists that characters are frequently pushed into 100% TM ties and it comes down to RNG.

The team wiped before it could get setup on my first try and got 1.3 million on my 2nd try. Which is respectable, and I could probably bump it up to over 1.5 easily and maybe approach 2 million with better mods, refined mechanisms, and RNG. But still a far cry from the 4 million the original team can do.

...as I stated Jyn can give ezra 100%tm so he can call 3p0 to assist 2x. So Jyn and Bistan DOES generate 2 assists for 3p0.

Even if he didn't, with this setup, you'll have so much extra tm gain over the original comp, you could actually afford to let 3p0 take a turn without his cds reset anyway. (2 ezra assists + 20% from Bistan is 100% which means with 20/29 resists 3p0 gets 2 turns a round, it actually becomes 20/32 when 3p0 takes a 2nd turn) He'll still get 2 turns in before the clock starts to tick again.

This setup can deal with 3p0 not getting called 2x before his turn without it being an issue because it just has more room for error.

Jyn’s special has a cooldown of 4. She can’t help generate and assist every turn, unless you make it a rotation of 3.

Yeah, I suppose her landing tm removal with truncheon strike to generate another turn would be mandatory but it's not guaranteed so it probably wouldn't work as well.

Ackbar could probably work. With all his self tm gain he's got a good chance to go before ezra and pop tactical genius.

I guess I fail to see what Tactical genius brings. It grants another turn but it doesn’t reset cooldowns. So Ezra neither Ezra nor C3PO would be able to call their assists back to back.

"Bulldog1205;c-1785841" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785829" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785521" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785437" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1785313" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1785080" wrote:
After thought, I think I would want to run both Jyn and Bistan over bb8 and Han.

Jyn can give a teammate 100% tm so you can have her give Ezra 100% tm and call 3p0 2x plus will be able to remove tm fairly consistently and gain bonus turns doing so.

Bistan will constantly have frenzy and will take numerous turns and has chances to remove tm. Plus he gives all allies 20% tm when he pops frenzy.

Tm gain seems like it would be a little better than with BB and raid Han, but with the added benefit of more sources of tm removal which will presumably be more reliable. You'd have 12 potential debuffs to be resisted with each Oh My Goodness and the amount during each turn would be much higher. Jyn could get 2 with truncheon strike. Bistan could get 6 a round. Ezra could be getting 4 a round. CLS could get 5 a round. So that's 29 chances to gain 5% tm on a resist, plus 20% tm from Bistan (so 16 resists would equal 100%tm) and a chance at tm removal on top of it all.

I mean, for tm removal, do we really care whether or not it gets resisted? Seems like it's a win either way, and probably a bigger one if it doesn't.

Because of the stacking tenacity and gaining tm eventually Traya will take turns since you won't be able to remove hers anymore (it will pretty much only be Jyn removing it anyway). But it seems like this might be comparable to NS vs Nihilus in this phase.

You do lose the damage buffs from bb8, but it seems like you'd be able to control Traya's tm better. May lead to a higher overall score. The only real issue I see is that occasionally 3p0 may take turns where OMG isn't off CD, but I don't think that will stop the tm train from rolling if he does. There's just too much of it.

Jyn and Bistan don’t generate 2 assists for C3PO, so his cooldown does not reset every turn, which ruins things.

I tried Hera just now in place of BB8. It doesn’t work well, for 2 reasons. First off, you now have 3 cooldowns you need reset (Hera, C3PO, Ezra) instead of just 2. That means you basically need to get 3 stacks on Hera where you only needed 1 on BB8. This means it takes longer to setup.

Second, the order of turns is not completely predictable, which means there were times when Hera, C3PO, and Ezra wouldn’t go in order, which means one of them would go before they got their cooldowns reset, which would throw off everything. This happens because of the TM gain Ezra gives C3PO, and because there are so many resists that characters are frequently pushed into 100% TM ties and it comes down to RNG.

The team wiped before it could get setup on my first try and got 1.3 million on my 2nd try. Which is respectable, and I could probably bump it up to over 1.5 easily and maybe approach 2 million with better mods, refined mechanisms, and RNG. But still a far cry from the 4 million the original team can do.

...as I stated Jyn can give ezra 100%tm so he can call 3p0 to assist 2x. So Jyn and Bistan DOES generate 2 assists for 3p0.

Even if he didn't, with this setup, you'll have so much extra tm gain over the original comp, you could actually afford to let 3p0 take a turn without his cds reset anyway. (2 ezra assists + 20% from Bistan is 100% which means with 20/29 resists 3p0 gets 2 turns a round, it actually becomes 20/32 when 3p0 takes a 2nd turn) He'll still get 2 turns in before the clock starts to tick again.

This setup can deal with 3p0 not getting called 2x before his turn without it being an issue because it just has more room for error.

Jyn’s special has a cooldown of 4. She can’t help generate and assist every turn, unless you make it a rotation of 3.

Yeah, I suppose her landing tm removal with truncheon strike to generate another turn would be mandatory but it's not guaranteed so it probably wouldn't work as well.

Ackbar could probably work. With all his self tm gain he's got a good chance to go before ezra and pop tactical genius.

I guess I fail to see what Tactical genius brings. It grants another turn but it doesn’t reset cooldowns. So Ezra neither Ezra nor C3PO would be able to call their assists back to back.

Apparently I need to pay more attention to cds. I was thinking watch and see had a cd of 2 just like I thought Rebel counterattack had a cd of 3.