Forum Discussion
10 years ago
The main problem here is the Devs ony gave the most surface level thought to an incentive structure for actual play and prizes, and focused all their work on the coding. Great graphics, great coding, but the actual incentives matter more.
There are literally infinite ways to set up a group play incentive structure that has positive self reinforcing features, but still encourages competitive play. I have limited time but will share 2 of the many possibilities here
Option 1
Have the group prize layouts decay over time
In this set up, all members of the guild split a set of prizes evenly amongst them, but the pool of prizes gets smaller the longer the guild takes to win the level. This encourages everyone to do as much dmg as quickly as possible to split the largest pot. Groups of Stronger players (read: whales) finish faster and share the largest pot.
Option 2
Prize Tier levels based on competition with other guilds
Games like marvels contest of champions use this structure to great effect. Players have x days to complete as many guild competitions as possible at the highest tier possible to get points. After passing some minumum points threshold, all guilds in top 10% of points get one level of great shared prize, then 11-30 get a lesser prize pack , 31-60% a lesser prize, and 61% and lower the worst prize pack. Again groups of stringer players can complete the most hardest mission for the most points and cooperate to end in the highest prize tier.
In both of the above scenarios the incentives for all guild members are aligned - all members need to do as much dmg as as fast as possible to get the best prizes which drives cooperation (and incidentally spending if they want the best prizes).
There are many many many other ways to set up good incentives like these. It just takes a bit of effort to build a structure that works, and then incorporate that structure into the game code,
The second problem is uneven ness in the points payout from the raid gameplay itself. Why does dmg to the taunting pigs not count, while dmg to the pig leader does count? Why does the door topple exist as a way to do tons of points and then go away in the final phase so only a few players can take advantage? What exactly do these choices do to add to game play in a way than incentivizes all players to do as much dmg as possible as quickly as possible together?
Now, If the prize structure is fixed as discussed above, then these problems wash out as the guilds total aggregate effort is all that matters. But if the prize structure isn't fixed, then these uneven elements only serve to destroy the point of guilds further.
So all in all, priority 1 has to be to fix the prize incentives. Everything else grows out for that.
Edit
One more thing to note - the guild system already has a built in contribution tracking in the form of the coins required to even start a raid. So there is already a system that aligns the players incentives to get a raid going in the first place. No one raids unless we all work together to get the coins to start a raid. This is a perfect example of how properly aligned incentives should be. The problem is that alignment is destroyed after the raid starts. Rather than destroying it, the collective incentive needs to become stronger. And it needs to reward the guilds who do the most dmg in the shortest amount of time. Very straightforward.
@EA_Jesse please read this. Please respond, everyone is concerned.
There are literally infinite ways to set up a group play incentive structure that has positive self reinforcing features, but still encourages competitive play. I have limited time but will share 2 of the many possibilities here
Option 1
Have the group prize layouts decay over time
In this set up, all members of the guild split a set of prizes evenly amongst them, but the pool of prizes gets smaller the longer the guild takes to win the level. This encourages everyone to do as much dmg as quickly as possible to split the largest pot. Groups of Stronger players (read: whales) finish faster and share the largest pot.
Option 2
Prize Tier levels based on competition with other guilds
Games like marvels contest of champions use this structure to great effect. Players have x days to complete as many guild competitions as possible at the highest tier possible to get points. After passing some minumum points threshold, all guilds in top 10% of points get one level of great shared prize, then 11-30 get a lesser prize pack , 31-60% a lesser prize, and 61% and lower the worst prize pack. Again groups of stringer players can complete the most hardest mission for the most points and cooperate to end in the highest prize tier.
In both of the above scenarios the incentives for all guild members are aligned - all members need to do as much dmg as as fast as possible to get the best prizes which drives cooperation (and incidentally spending if they want the best prizes).
There are many many many other ways to set up good incentives like these. It just takes a bit of effort to build a structure that works, and then incorporate that structure into the game code,
The second problem is uneven ness in the points payout from the raid gameplay itself. Why does dmg to the taunting pigs not count, while dmg to the pig leader does count? Why does the door topple exist as a way to do tons of points and then go away in the final phase so only a few players can take advantage? What exactly do these choices do to add to game play in a way than incentivizes all players to do as much dmg as possible as quickly as possible together?
Now, If the prize structure is fixed as discussed above, then these problems wash out as the guilds total aggregate effort is all that matters. But if the prize structure isn't fixed, then these uneven elements only serve to destroy the point of guilds further.
So all in all, priority 1 has to be to fix the prize incentives. Everything else grows out for that.
Edit
One more thing to note - the guild system already has a built in contribution tracking in the form of the coins required to even start a raid. So there is already a system that aligns the players incentives to get a raid going in the first place. No one raids unless we all work together to get the coins to start a raid. This is a perfect example of how properly aligned incentives should be. The problem is that alignment is destroyed after the raid starts. Rather than destroying it, the collective incentive needs to become stronger. And it needs to reward the guilds who do the most dmg in the shortest amount of time. Very straightforward.
@EA_Jesse please read this. Please respond, everyone is concerned.
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