Would a Sith Eternal Follower/Cultists make sense as a replacement for Wat to buff SEE?

He for sure needs something. Without Wat he’s the only GL who cannot really reliably kill any others.

"Itsa_me_Malario;c-2426447" wrote:He needs it more than anyone else, which is why its extremely weird that JMK, LV, and Rey got booster before SEE did, infact JML also has a booster, Jedi Luke. JKL is not a real booster, just strong/best synergy unlike CAT, Maul, and Ben who were directly made for certain parts of their GL kits.not the best examples but JKL would probably be "equivalent" to royal Guard in a LV team, Ahsoka (young) in a JMK team, and probably Cal for the Rey team.

If people remember the old “SEE Definitely Needs a Buff!” thread… yeah. Honestly I think he has too many issues with his kit that a buff, or at least a touchup, would be needed in addition to a booster.He specifically has anti-synergy against certain tags (mostly Light Side, but also Jedi and Rebel) - which is another way of saying parts of his kit don’t activate unless facing specific teams. That’s pretty rare for other GLs, but SEE has it everywhere.Once you use his Ult, you need another turn to actually instakill anyone you Linked, and you end up losing the functionality of his pre-Ult abilities (mostly Protection recovery and Speed Up, and the chance to reapply Decieved vs DS teams - there’s more but the rest is generally outshined by instakill potential). And Linked doesn’t work against a solo enemy, at all.And even just design-wise, some things are weirdly unsynergistic. SEE charges his Ult only by having the enemy use abilities, which generally you don’t want happening and Decieved partially stops from happening (counters). His Lead and any hope of a cleanse depends on Sith allies dying which you generally want to avoid for banners/stars/etc. His abilities add team and self-survivability but really not much damage output until Ult. There really isn’t good synergy with specific Sith units - just anti-synergy stopping Sion’s revives. He had a specific clause put into his Lead to try and gain TM to stop Troopers from walking all over him but Troopers can just… Daze him.I’m sure you could do something similar for other GLs, but I feel like any flaws they have could get covered by a booster pretty easily, i.e. a SLKR booster removing a little TM from the team to trigger the boost to Max Health/Prot so gaining TM doesn’t hurt so much. But SEE… I don’t even know where you start. Decieving all enemies at the start of the encounter? Cleanses? Something nearly identical to Wat/Armorer buffs? Remember one of SEE’s old Datacrons set his Ult at 80% when in a full Sith team and gave him a bonus turn once he used it, which apparently was meant to be playable against. Also whatever he does, Allegiant General Pryde would make a good character for a booster.

OK, so the major issues that need to be fixed with SEE:- Team Survivability (CG has created a game where survival matters, but SEE breaks this)- Ultimate charge (SEE's ult charge is slow, and entirely dependant on your opponent taking turns. Ineffective when facing a single opponent)- Slow (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than speed)- Weak (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than offence. Weak against DS teams)- Can get tripped up with debuffs (ability block and healing immunity are killers - one of many reasons Wat helps)I can't promise that's all the issues, but those are the big ones (as helpfully pointed out above).The question becomes, how can you fix these, or mitigate them, with a lifter? A rework would be nice, but a lifter is a more likely solution...My best hope would be for some sort of lifter that replaces a whole team. Not a singular character, but a Chorus. My personal wish is for The Sith Eternal (TSE - that legion of Wraith-like beings surrounding SEE in his chamber on Exegol) that would be weak (no damage output) but help feed Ult charge to SEE. Team survivability matters less, since you can't have anyone else on that team. And TSE could have a mechanic where they take on the debuffs that might be applied to SEE - maybe that's how they feed him Power (to be more offensive), or Ult charge. Or those are a basic and a special, so you choose whether to remove debuffs from SEE, or feed Ult charge.

Do you guys not have Savage? Traya?I think the larger issue with SEE is that no one wants to put the good Sith with him. Can't complain that he underperforms with the leftover scraps he's usually given. How would a team of Rey, Rose, Holdo, vets perform?

Does SEE need a Booster character?

Screerider
Seasoned Scout
2 years ago
Maybe a second Ult where he inhabits Rey’s body.(I think that was his plan.)
TheeMoBlaq
2 years ago
"Redandblue;c-2426605" wrote:
His biggest problem is he relies to much on his ultimate to do damage. And when facing dark side characters his attacks are like throwing feathers at a metal wall. I think he needs a buff more than anything.

I think a legit Booster would need to be a start. Doubt they rework him. They probably would just add characters that fit him like they did with Rey.
TargetEadu
2 years ago
"Ragnarok_COTF;c-2426644" wrote:
Do you guys not have Savage? Traya?

I think the larger issue with SEE is that no one wants to put the good Sith with him. Can't complain that he underperforms with the leftover scraps he's usually given. How would a team of Rey, Rose, Holdo, vets perform?

Honestly I don’t have either geared, I have other projects that got in the way. But looking at GAC counters, does it help that much? Dismantling a very effective Triumvirate team and a very good solo character to just build a SEE team that doesn’t have a high chance of falling to a solo Wampa doesn’t seem like a good trade. And any SEE Sith comp seems easily beaten by SEE+Wat.
TargetEadu
2 years ago
"Ragnarok_COTF;c-2426657" wrote:
Excluded Aphra because her DC was stupid OP.

SEE with Malak stops Wampa. Add Savage, and you stop many other counters. Add Traya, and it may be GL only (with the exception of Reva).

To perform at a high level, all the other GLs require you to use toons that are useful on other teams. But no one ever wants to give SEE any toys. I also don't, but that's because he's so versatile on offense, and Traya+Savage is already crazy good on defense.

That’s sort of my point. How much is SEE actually adding to a defensive team with Traya and Savage? From what I’m seeing that team with Talon needs a GL or near one (GAS/SK) to take out without having SEE at all. Same with Malgus SE with Malak. Both are more strongly countered by GAS than any SEE team should be, but that’s two really strong defensive teams.

Other GLs do break up teams, but usually not more than one, and there are options (ie if JML or JMK takes GAS then run 501st with Shaak, oFOTP to make a second FO team, now Zorii, etc). They also work well with their requirements for the most part except LV, who works with SEE’s requirements, and arguably Rey.

And offensively SEE’s best friend is Wat.
TargetEadu
2 years ago
"Ragnarok_COTF;c-2426677" wrote:
So the issue isn't so much that SEE needs a lifter as it is that SEE's lifters are so good that they don't need him XD

… yeah, pretty much :P

The other issues additively make SEE worse, and could definitely be fixed or alleviated in his kit, but SEE could really use a lifter actually meant to work with him.
ccmoose
Rising Novice
2 years ago
"Itsa_me_Malario;c-2426710" wrote:
"Ragnarok_COTF;c-2426657" wrote:
Excluded Aphra because her DC was stupid OP.

SEE with Malak stops Wampa. Add Savage, and you stop many other counters. Add Traya, and it may be GL only (with the exception of Reva).

To perform at a high level, all the other GLs require you to use toons that are useful on other teams. But no one ever wants to give SEE any toys. I also don't, but that's because he's so versatile on offense, and Traya+Savage is already crazy good on defense.

Why waste traya and davage omicron on a GL, when traya and savage together are basically a GL.

"Ragnarok_COTF;c-2426677" wrote:
So the issue isn't so much that SEE needs a lifter as it is that SEE's lifters are so good that they don't need him XD
stewmon
2 years ago
He sure do need one
ShadowJediKnight
Seasoned Newcomer
2 years ago
Give him Sith Rey. Sure, she was only in the movie for 30 seconds, but those sharp teeth were cool.
piatz1019
Seasoned Novice
2 years ago
How I would fix it (not that CG cares):

Add Darth Bane who's unique ("The Rule of Two") would passively cleanse Sith allies if there are only 2 Sith at the start of the encounter, and then a special that equalizes health of all Sith. Then touch up SEE's link to include "or Sith ally if there is only 2 Sith present at the start of the encounter."

Bane then replaces Wat with a Sith, and SEE can finally handle solo's. Also, Sidious leeching protection and then killing his ally along with his enemy is perfectly thematic.
MasterSeedy
New Ace
2 years ago
4: If SEE uses I Am All The Sith while SEE Cultist is active, SEE cultist against +100% Max Health, +100% Max Protection and Taunt until the end of battle (this taunt cannot be copied, prevented or dispelled).

Shoot, I meant this to say, "until defeated or until end of battle" since he can still be killed and revived at this point, assuming other Sith allies are still active.