The squish formula hasn't changed since at least last November, and kyber 1 is steadily shrinking. We're down under 2000 this month (1998 players in kyber1 in week 2 of the Feb 2023 season). When does it stop? Figures: - Squish compiled across leagues and divisions from November 2022 to February 23 (note: just did ~10-15 players in Jan Feb to confirm they fell on the same lines as previous months; Nov and Dec were the biggest data pulls. I have 278 data points represented here.)- Raw player numbers in kyber1 over time. As the months went on we started collecting information every week rather than just once a month to see the shape. You can see that players do move back into kyber1 through banner drift, but not enough to make up for the squish each month. This demonstrates that the squish formula is flawed for this division. -

The usual radio silence on all things balance related is unhelpful in this matter. The last official word we had was over a year ago where the squish was intended to "not have any impact on your Grand Arena experience" and is demonstrably false now.Even if you win more than you lose (i.e go 5-4) you will still drop. This has affected both your ability to climb into or maintain in K1. The implications on the daily crystal payouts to players and the savings it generates for CG are obvious.

Yeah this is getting annoying, I've gone 6-3 and actually dropped for the next season. I have no idea how they calculate wins or why this happens. I'd love to hear if this is intentional, do they want just 100 people in k1 eventually?

They want zero people in k1 eventually.

IIRC meathead was notified (via more than just a ping here) so until proven otherwise it's WAI.

FWIW Meat just confirmed on discord that he's seen this thread. All we can do.

February squish - we're under 2k in kyber 1! We... win?

Reesei
Seasoned Newcomer
2 years ago
Dropped 12% month over month in March with no change in squish formula, btw, don’t think I dropped that here. Now we are waiting to see April. Hopefully something new.
MasterSeedy
New Ace
2 years ago
What if it's not really a problem because CG defines Khyber 1 using an extremely large value of "1"?
Rokaryn_Mazel
New Spectator
2 years ago
Someone who has CG's ear needs to actually point this out to them so that they understand the issue.

They applied a dynamic squish to a system with static boundaries.
Rokaryn_Mazel
New Spectator
2 years ago
"TVF;c-2405050" wrote:
IIRC meathead was notified (via more than just a ping here) so until proven otherwise it's WAI.

That doesn't mean that CG really understands the issue. Clearly, they don't understand Kyber 1 counters, as we can see with immediate nerfs to so many releases lately. So I don't believe that they necessarily know about the issue or that it is WAI for them. Maybe. but they just may not gronk the situation.
jakedonels786
New Spectator
2 years ago
Maybe they know it's happening but just don't know how to fix it...
tvsfrink
2 years ago
"Rokaryn_Mazel;c-2405052" wrote:
"TVF;c-2405050" wrote:
IIRC meathead was notified (via more than just a ping here) so until proven otherwise it's WAI.

That doesn't mean that CG really understands the issue. Clearly, they don't understand Kyber 1 counters, as we can see with immediate nerfs to so many releases lately. So I don't believe that they necessarily know about the issue or that it is WAI for them. Maybe. but they just may not gronk the situation.

If meat brought it to them, then they've already made their decision most likely, whether they understand it or not.
St4rlace
2 years ago
"TVF;c-2405066" wrote:
FWIW Meat just confirmed on discord that he's seen this thread. All we can do.

Did he say something else? Are they looking into it?
corncobmandhwo
Seasoned Newcomer
2 years ago
Do you really think that they will change something that’s working in their favor? Via decreasing the rewards income, some might compensate this via buying in the store.
St4rlace
2 years ago
"MasterSeedy;c-2405260" wrote:
@Lumiya

Did he say something else? Are they looking into it?

yes, they are looking into it. They've contacted us at 50ShardsOfKAM. They've specifically invited us to comment on mathematical techniques that would be better at accomplishing what they intend. Fortunately we have a couple professors and one person with experience in mathematical topology, so we're not a dumb group, but

1) It's hard for us to know (and by "us" I mean "people at 50SoK who aren't me since I'm not the math expert) exactly what would be better since we're not entirely sure of their goals,

and
2) Even if Tatiana or someone else comes up with a better mathematical transform, there's no guarantee that CG will think it's as good as we think it is.

So communication is happening. They're thinking at their end. Tatiana and other math experts are thinking at their end. What will happen? Who knows! But it's interesting for me to have a front row seat during mathematics debates I'm a couple semesters shy of understanding.

Oh wow, that is good news! I very much appreciate the insight, thank you so much!
I think it's really nice to see that they are communicating and seem the be willing to change something.
The only thing that confuses me a little is that one would think that they have people for those equations.
ShawDou
2 years ago
I believe that K1 shrinking is happening because algorithm doesnt know how to handle rating difference within the Top 1-10 K1 players.

They likely dont want the upper skill rating range to grow infinitely, but because top 1 player keep winning more than loosing. (If you check the ladder there is currently the 266 points difference between 1st and 11th place) Then his rating only grows, making higher difference between him and K1 lowest number bracket.

And if i am correct and they dont want the highest skill rating to be above some number so, they just keep removing that amount of points from all ppl forcing them to lower divisions because more and more space in K1 is just empty.

In the end if Top 1 will keep increasing his rating it has no solution except completely change the squish not by skill rating but by player numbers, but then the highest skill rating will just keep growing indefinitely as long as any player will always win more matches than he loose.