There is a persistent isssue with how ships function in GA. If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA. Because fleets account for very little of your battle scores, they become almost meaningless.
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
This is especially emphasized when an opponent can view your fleet strength during setup and decide to make getting to the fleet battle near impossible.
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
On my CLS example, did I really need to explicitly state that it was an example of winning despite a disadvantage (we can find many examples of that both in and out of GA). Come on, at least be reasonable if you’re going to continue this.
If your CLS team beats Revan teams all the time, how are you then at a disadvantage? To me it seems your CLS team has the advantage (on offense at least). Maybe you should reconsider how you define advantage/disadvantage.
In my case it's not winning despite a disadvantage in having a strong fleet - it's winning because I had the advantage of a strong fleet. That's my whole point. My 200k extra ships GP was an advantage - not a disadvantage as claimed.
If he said it then quote it. Otherwise, it’s kind of hard to argue your point.
Don't start that silly game of yours again. I have already qouted it in a previous comment to you. Reread it. It's quite simple, really. Furthermore, you can read it for your self in the original post, like I just wrote.
This isn’t a “silly game.” I didn’t see it in any of the previous posts, quotes, etc.
Then please reread either your own posts, my responses or the original post - whatever you prefer.
And way to avoid all of the questions I asked! Trying to redirect the thread again by selectively quoting?
I have no interest in discussing, what you asked about. My only points have already been very clear: Very strong fleets can be an advantage and can win GAs for you.
Your point, while valid does not contradict the other points I have made. These aren’t mutually exclusive points.
I never discussed your other points. However, I disagree with your original claims that very strong fleets are automaticaly a disadvantage, and that players, who focused on fleets will never win a GA.
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
You finally agreee. How wonderfull :-)
(I don't agree with some of your arguments, and have already commented on this, but that's a different thing)
"Waqui;c-1780619" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780592" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote:
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
To be fair this seems like a rebuttal to your prior comments focusing only on strategy and ignoring the imbalance.
I suggested a strategy to help you out, yes, and people began discussing it. I also stated that I don't see strong ships as a disadvantage, which lead to further discussions.
I should have said that when going against an opponent who has a strong strategy, well made up squads, and the match-up has a fleet imbalance, you will almost never win.
I disagree. Strong fleets always worked out to be an advantage for me. As I previously stated: If your opponent blocks your way to the fleet zone, you don't loose because of your strong fleet - you loose because you don't have a counter to whatever team blocks your way (maybe you don't have a counter at all - maybe you used it elsewhere).
(Yes, fluff GP ships are a disadvantage, but that's beside your point - and mine)
It is comical that you are now saying you agreed with me all along
I never did claim this. Don't lie. You are the one who changed your position from this (which I never agreed with):
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote: If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA.
To this:
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
Hence agreeing with me that your first claim was false.
Please stick to the truth and keep your trolling to less blatant attempts.
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
On my CLS example, did I really need to explicitly state that it was an example of winning despite a disadvantage (we can find many examples of that both in and out of GA). Come on, at least be reasonable if you’re going to continue this.
If your CLS team beats Revan teams all the time, how are you then at a disadvantage? To me it seems your CLS team has the advantage (on offense at least). Maybe you should reconsider how you define advantage/disadvantage.
In my case it's not winning despite a disadvantage in having a strong fleet - it's winning because I had the advantage of a strong fleet. That's my whole point. My 200k extra ships GP was an advantage - not a disadvantage as claimed.
If he said it then quote it. Otherwise, it’s kind of hard to argue your point.
Don't start that silly game of yours again. I have already qouted it in a previous comment to you. Reread it. It's quite simple, really. Furthermore, you can read it for your self in the original post, like I just wrote.
This isn’t a “silly game.” I didn’t see it in any of the previous posts, quotes, etc.
Then please reread either your own posts, my responses or the original post - whatever you prefer.
And way to avoid all of the questions I asked! Trying to redirect the thread again by selectively quoting?
I have no interest in discussing, what you asked about. My only points have already been very clear: Very strong fleets can be an advantage and can win GAs for you.
Your point, while valid does not contradict the other points I have made. These aren’t mutually exclusive points.
I never discussed your other points. However, I disagree with your original claims that very strong fleets are automaticaly a disadvantage, and that players, who focused on fleets will never win a GA.
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
You finally agreee. How wonderfull :-)
(I don't agree with some of your arguments, and have already commented on this, but that's a different thing)
"Waqui;c-1780619" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780592" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote:
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
To be fair this seems like a rebuttal to your prior comments focusing only on strategy and ignoring the imbalance.
I suggested a strategy to help you out, yes, and people began discussing it. I also stated that I don't see strong ships as a disadvantage, which lead to further discussions.
I should have said that when going against an opponent who has a strong strategy, well made up squads, and the match-up has a fleet imbalance, you will almost never win.
I disagree. Strong fleets always worked out to be an advantage for me. As I previously stated: If your opponent blocks your way to the fleet zone, you don't loose because of your strong fleet - you loose because you don't have a counter to whatever team blocks your way (maybe you don't have a counter at all - maybe you used it elsewhere).
(Yes, fluff GP ships are a disadvantage, but that's beside your point - and mine)
It is comical that you are now saying you agreed with me all along
I never did claim this. Don't lie. You are the one who changed your position from this (which I never agreed with):
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote: If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA.
To this:
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
Hence agreeing with me that your first claim was false.
Please stick to the truth and keep your trolling to less blatant attempts.
You are taking me out of context and distorting my meaning. I still hold that a high ship to squad ratio starts you at a disadvantage in GA. If your strategy is stronger than your opponents you can leverage fleets for a victory, but because points from a fleet win are valued the same as squad wins yet make up a disproportionate GP amount, you are the underdog at the outset. (This point is covered in more detail earlier in the thread)
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
On my CLS example, did I really need to explicitly state that it was an example of winning despite a disadvantage (we can find many examples of that both in and out of GA). Come on, at least be reasonable if you’re going to continue this.
If your CLS team beats Revan teams all the time, how are you then at a disadvantage? To me it seems your CLS team has the advantage (on offense at least). Maybe you should reconsider how you define advantage/disadvantage.
In my case it's not winning despite a disadvantage in having a strong fleet - it's winning because I had the advantage of a strong fleet. That's my whole point. My 200k extra ships GP was an advantage - not a disadvantage as claimed.
If he said it then quote it. Otherwise, it’s kind of hard to argue your point.
Don't start that silly game of yours again. I have already qouted it in a previous comment to you. Reread it. It's quite simple, really. Furthermore, you can read it for your self in the original post, like I just wrote.
This isn’t a “silly game.” I didn’t see it in any of the previous posts, quotes, etc.
Then please reread either your own posts, my responses or the original post - whatever you prefer.
And way to avoid all of the questions I asked! Trying to redirect the thread again by selectively quoting?
I have no interest in discussing, what you asked about. My only points have already been very clear: Very strong fleets can be an advantage and can win GAs for you.
Your point, while valid does not contradict the other points I have made. These aren’t mutually exclusive points.
I never discussed your other points. However, I disagree with your original claims that very strong fleets are automaticaly a disadvantage, and that players, who focused on fleets will never win a GA.
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
You finally agreee. How wonderfull :-)
(I don't agree with some of your arguments, and have already commented on this, but that's a different thing)
"Waqui;c-1780619" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780592" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:
You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.
To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.
(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)
I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.
Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.
The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote:
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
To be fair this seems like a rebuttal to your prior comments focusing only on strategy and ignoring the imbalance.
I suggested a strategy to help you out, yes, and people began discussing it. I also stated that I don't see strong ships as a disadvantage, which lead to further discussions.
I should have said that when going against an opponent who has a strong strategy, well made up squads, and the match-up has a fleet imbalance, you will almost never win.
I disagree. Strong fleets always worked out to be an advantage for me. As I previously stated: If your opponent blocks your way to the fleet zone, you don't loose because of your strong fleet - you loose because you don't have a counter to whatever team blocks your way (maybe you don't have a counter at all - maybe you used it elsewhere).
(Yes, fluff GP ships are a disadvantage, but that's beside your point - and mine)
It is comical that you are now saying you agreed with me all along
I never did claim this. Don't lie. You are the one who changed your position from this (which I never agreed with):
"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote: If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA.
To this:
A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.
Hence agreeing with me that your first claim was false.
Please stick to the truth and keep your trolling to less blatant attempts.
You are taking me out of context and distorting my meaning. I still hold that a high ship to squad ratio starts you at a disadvantage in GA.
Your original statement was, that very strong fleets automaticaly put you at a disadvantage, not this new statement.
But ok, here we go: If the high ratio is based on having more strong ships, then your high ratio is an advantage (strong ships are an advantage). However, if the high ratio is based on having many weak ships, then it's a disadvantage. Ship fluff GP is a disadvantage just like fluff character GP is, but I believe fluff GP is besides your point. Hence, I assume, that in our discussion, the high ratio is based on having more strong ships. It will hence most often be an advantage. It does not automaticaly put you at a disadvantage. (Your fleet may not always win the battle for you, but that's besides the point)
If your strategy is stronger than your opponents you can leverage fleets for a victory,
In my most recent GA round it was not a question of my strategy being stronger than my opponent's. It was a question of me being able to set a defensive fleet, which he didn't have a counter for. No matter what strategy he had applied, he couldn't win. He didn't have any character team for which I didn't have a counter. He couldn't have countered my strategy no matter what. The strong fleet was what won the battle. Yes, I could have lost, if I had used a weak strategy, but that's beside the point.
but because points from a fleet win are valued the same as squad wins yet make up a disproportionate GP amount, you are the underdog at the outset.
In my most recent GA round, I was in no way the underdog at outset. My opponent was, due to his weaker fleet, with no counter for my defensive fleet. I'm quite confident, that even if he saved all his strongest ships for offence, he wouldn't be able to defeat my defensive fleet. (I can provide screenshots of his fleet roster and mine if you like).
My fleet GP is 1.3m and my squad GP is 1.4m. Almost a 50/50 split.
The reason my fleet GP is so high is due to having all the prior/current metas. Ships have been my primary focus since they came out to get #1 each day
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780761" wrote: I am curious what GP levels we are all talking about?
I am just shy of 1.8 million GP with about 900k or 50% fleet.
I notice that Waqui's main account appears to be around 3.91m with around 1.57m or 40% fleet. What about the alt that was mentioned?
The OP has already posted his numbers (or perhaps it was just a random example), and I have already posted the numbers for my alt during the recent GA.
