Geonosian Spy Kit Changes [MEGA]

"Fixer;c-1887202" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1887131" wrote:

"Fixer;c-1886903" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1886766" wrote:

"Fixer;c-1886741" wrote:
What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.

Wanna try elaborating with evidence/explanation rather than just state a squad and dismissing me?

Ig88 lead gives everyone the ability to debuff on every attack. You are calling a mass assist on every move. Game over.

Yeah I reread ig88 and eventually noticed that which is quite an interesting idea, it really does seem pretty dumb to nerf TM gain that much for one leader possibility, honestly they couldve kept the whole only during their turn part with a fairly high TM gain I accept maybe not 70% and yet it would still do the trick and not harm the toon too much purely because ig88 could be a leader

It could still be a problem without IG lead. Mod Soldier to 100% crit chance. That is actually VERY easy with mediocre mods. Put plenty of potency on Sun Fac and Poggle. Any fast unit goes first, and calls everyone to assist. Geo Soldier assists, and gets 50% TM from a crit to finish filling his TM to 100%. On that same move Sun Fac has a 100% chance to debuff an enemy when he attacks out of turn. If that procs then Spy will also have 100% TM now. If it gets resisted then Poggle may still get his 60% chance to debuff. If both of those fail then when Geo Soldier goes he will call both of them to assist again. So that is two 100% chances to land debuffs (- the base 15% resist chance) and two 60% chances to land a debuff. It's HIGHLY unlikely to miss all 4 of those. Also Geo Soldier will give himself 50% more TM when he crits. Then when Spy goes, he will call Sun Fac and Poggle to assist again to give himself TM, and he will call Soldier again giving Soldier full TM. Then Soldier will call Sun Fac and Poggle AGAIN and give himself 50% TM AGAIN and give them opportunities to give Spy TM AGAIN. Rinse and repeat.

It's a 100% sure thing that Soldier can crit every time and give himself 50% TM as long as he doesn't get dodged. Since his speed would be irrelevant you could put an accuracy arrow on him. Sun Fac and Poggle would also not need speed, so you could push their potency through the roof. Because of Soldier you effectively double the number of attempts at debuffs. He and Spy could possibly swap turns forever now, but that is assuming that they weren't planning on adding more debuffs to the Geos in some of the upcoming tweaks. Poggle was called out as getting a buff by Carrie, so I would bet his chance to ability block goes up to 100% making the infinite loop a pretty much sure thing. I'm actually surprised that Soldier isn't getting nerfed too.

But since the team is getting another dispel on basic, a mass dispel unique, a big health/protection lead buff, +50% health steal and constant protection regen, a mass heal/protection regen and cleanse unique, a free 6th unit on the field that will autotaunt to start battles and taunt on basic and can be resurrected indefinitely, a free health equalization on every single enemy move, a free mass assist on every single ally move, and the faction will be getting buffs in the future (Spy and Poggle for sure but likely all of them) then I'm going out on a limb and saying that this is a net improvement despite the nerf to Spy.

"Fixer;c-1887356" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1887210" wrote:
The reason it had to be restricted to during their turn is because of Sun Fac, whose debuff does apply on his basic (critical chance down, which is applied when he attacks out of turn), though the debuff comes from his unique. Between him and Poggle, that’s two shots to gain TM every time any ally moves, and with SF, Spy has the chance to restart the loop whenever SF counters.

As I stated earlier, I'm not sure if you've played Poggle but his chance of debuff isn't that high, the risk is there yes but quite unlikely... also how would SF counter restart the loop? His counters don't inflict debuffs?

You should really read up on the kits of the toons you are arguing about

I just happy they finally called these things a nerf. Instead of a bug fix or some other nonsense

"Shenanigans052;c-1887629" wrote:
I just happy they finally called these things a nerf. Instead of a bug fix or some other nonsense

But.... Geonosian reworks are the perfect time to use the term 'bug fix.'

You guys are killing me it feels ike you are targeting my strategy for GA and Padma event. Would you be so kind as to please create a maga thread and let us know what changes your going to be making to which characters so we know to avoid investing gear and more mats and time into those toons. I don't own a bank. And have yet to win the lottery. Alot of energy wasted to making them viable due to drop rates..now let's nurf abilities and refund mats!

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

What if they design a new jedi who gives 50% Tm on critical hits to all ally jedi?

Then they nerf Yoda because he will gain 100% Tm on his basic with this new jedi. You would be cool with that?

See, my point is players should demand new content is designed around and works with existing kits.

Gutting characters like spy, Nute, hk47, acolyte is bad for the game. it devalues and discourages spending & leveling characters for fear of future nerfs/reworks.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888893" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

What if they design a new jedi who gives 50% Tm on critical hits to all ally jedi?

Then they nerf Yoda because he will gain 100% Tm on his basic with this new jedi. You would be cool with that?

See, my point is players should demand new content is designed around and works with existing kits.

Gutting characters like spy, Nute, hk47, acolyte is bad for the game. it devalues and discourages spending & leveling characters for fear of future nerfs/reworks.

Almost all initial kit designs were garbage, and most launch toons that are any good have been reworked. Nobody used Spy outside of a cheese team that doesn't work anymore. I don't care if he and all the Geos are redesigned from scratch as long as they are turned into a useful faction. Same goes for other garbage toons. Nute wasn't gutted. He's great now. HK lead was nuked, and lots of us liked that as it was, but occasionally that will happen. Some badly designed kits have to go to make room for better, more interesting game mechanics.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888893" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

Look. Some characters from the early game were made when things were different. There was less of an emphasis on futureproofing the game and characters were made with little regard to what the game could become. You go back to 2015 and try telling people there’ll be four movies and we would get video game characters in here.

Games have to grow and evolve or else they die. Create a new mechanic (prepared) emphasize factional synergies (gone are the days when Royal Guard protected Rey while Luminara gave them all dodge and it was nuts, now are the days of full faction teams with one substitute), expand the ability count on characters (Mace with a basic and special is gone, long live a basic and minimum 2 specials).

And as the game grows you find yourself limited by what’s already been done. Arabian Nights cards in Magic: the Gathering were over-priced because it was assumed everyone had moxes and lotuses. Only once you free yourself from that mindset can you start creating newer, better stuff. Finn was too powerful. New Finn can’t do what the old one did, but can do other, better things and, more importantly, allow future Resistance characters to have exposes again.

"NicWester;c-1889467" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888893" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

Look. Some characters from the early game were made when things were different. There was less of an emphasis on futureproofing the game and characters were made with little regard to what the game could become. You go back to 2015 and try telling people there’ll be four movies and we would get video game characters in here.

Games have to grow and evolve or else they die. Create a new mechanic (prepared) emphasize factional synergies (gone are the days when Royal Guard protected Rey while Luminara gave them all dodge and it was nuts, now are the days of full faction teams with one substitute), expand the ability count on characters (Mace with a basic and special is gone, long live a basic and minimum 2 specials).

And as the game grows you find yourself limited by what’s already been done. Arabian Nights cards in Magic: the Gathering were over-priced because it was assumed everyone had moxes and lotuses. Only once you free yourself from that mindset can you start creating newer, better stuff. Finn was too powerful. New Finn can’t do what the old one did, but can do other, better things and, more importantly, allow future Resistance characters to have exposes again.

Under this freed mindset we can expect nightsisters to get nerfed because future nightsisters can't stun with the # of existing stuns. future rebels can't even apply debuffs until cls lead is nerfed.

All these nerfs to Hk and Finn... Did we even get new Droids to work with what we lost? No. When who knows? Finn was changes for new resistance but did we get new resistance, no. until we do this is a empty hypothetical argument as a reason to nerf.

And the argument Finn needed to be nerfed to make way for a new resistance character that has multiple exposes is BS anyways on principle. they could just design resistance that only apply 1 expose with a mass ability block or buff immune. they don't HAVE TO make a new resistance character with aoe expose and a 0 turn cooldown on that special. If they really HAD TO make a kit like that put the cooldown to 9 or 19 no loop potential. Ez fix.

Proper new character design is better for the game than nerfing existing toons because of some imaginary future loop with characters that don't even exist. This happened to Hk, Finn, and now spy.

"JacenRoe;c-1889748" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889656" wrote:

"NicWester;c-1889467" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888893" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

Look. Some characters from the early game were made when things were different. There was less of an emphasis on futureproofing the game and characters were made with little regard to what the game could become. You go back to 2015 and try telling people there’ll be four movies and we would get video game characters in here.

Games have to grow and evolve or else they die. Create a new mechanic (prepared) emphasize factional synergies (gone are the days when Royal Guard protected Rey while Luminara gave them all dodge and it was nuts, now are the days of full faction teams with one substitute), expand the ability count on characters (Mace with a basic and special is gone, long live a basic and minimum 2 specials).

And as the game grows you find yourself limited by what’s already been done. Arabian Nights cards in Magic: the Gathering were over-priced because it was assumed everyone had moxes and lotuses. Only once you free yourself from that mindset can you start creating newer, better stuff. Finn was too powerful. New Finn can’t do what the old one did, but can do other, better things and, more importantly, allow future Resistance characters to have exposes again.

Under this freed mindset we can expect nightsisters to get nerfed because future nightsisters can't stun with the # of existing stuns. future rebels can't even apply debuffs until cls lead is nerfed.

All these nerfs to Hk and Finn... Did we even get new Droids to work with what we lost? No. When who knows? Finn was changes for new resistance but did we get new resistance, no. until we do this is a empty hypothetical argument as a reason to nerf.

And the argument Finn needed to be nerfed to make way for a new resistance character that has multiple exposes is **** anyways on principle. they could just design resistance that only apply 1 expose with a mass ability block or buff immune. they don't HAVE TO make a new resistance character with aoe expose and a 0 turn cooldown on that special. If they really HAD TO make a kit like that put the cooldown to 9 or 19 no loop potential. Ez fix.

Proper new character design is better for the game than nerfing existing toons because of some imaginary future loop with characters that don't even exist. This happened to Hk, Finn, and now spy.

Why don't you show us what proper character design is in your game. If you design kits as well as you do straw men then it would be quite a success.

Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol